Soncino English Talmud
Shabbat
Daf 115b
Shall we say the first Tanna and R. Jose, — but perhaps they differ in this: one Master holds, It is permitted to read them; while the other holds, It is not permitted to read them? Rather [they are] R. Jose and the Tanna [who taught the law] about the Egyptian [script]. Our Rabbis taught: Benedictions and amulets, though they contain letters of the [Divine] Name and many passages of the Torah, must not be rescued from a fire but must be burnt where they lie, they together with their Names. Hence it was said, They who write down Benedictions are as though they burnt a Torah. It happened that one was once writing in Sidon. R. Ishmael was informed thereof, and he went to question him [about it]. As he was ascending the ladder, he [the writer] became aware of him, [so] he took a sheaf of benedictions and plunged them into a bowl of water. In these words did R. Ishmael speak to him: The punishment for the latter [deed] is greater than for the former. The Resh Galutha asked Rabbah son of R. Huna: If they are written with paint [dye], sikra, gum ink, or calcanthum, in Hebrew, may they be rescued from a fire or not? This is asked whether on the view that we may save or that we may not save. It is asked on the view that we may not save: that may be only if they are written in Targum or any [other] language; but here that they are written in Hebrew, we may rescue [them]. Or perhaps even on the view that we may save [them], that is only when they are written in ink, which is lasting; but here, since it [the writing] is not permanent, [we may] not [rescue them]? — We may not save [them], answered he. But R. Hamnuna recited, We may save [them]? — If it was taught, it was taught, replied he. Where was it taught? — Said R. Ashi, Even as it was taught: The only difference between the [other] Books and the Megillah is that the Books can be written in any language, whereas a Megillah must be written in Assyrian, on a Scroll, and in ink. R. Huna b. Halub asked R. Nahman: A Scroll of the Law in which eighty-five letters cannot be gathered, such as the section, And it came to pass when the Ark set forward [etc.], may it be saved from a fire or not? — Said he, Then ask about the section, 'and it came to pass, etc.,'itself! — If the section, 'And it came to pass, etc.,' is defective [through effacing], I have no problem, for since it contains the Divine Name, even if it does not contain eighty-five letters we must rescue it. My only problem is about a Scroll of the Law wherein [this number] cannot be gathered: what then? We may not save it, he answered. He refuted him: If Targum is written as Mikra, or Mikra is written in Targum or in Hebrew characters, they must be saved from a fire, and the Targum in Ezra, Daniel and the Torah [the Pentateuch] go without saying. Now, what is the Targum in the Torah? [The words], Yegar sahadutha; and though it does not contain eighty-five letters [it must be saved]? — That was taught in respect of completing [the number]. The scholars asked: These eighty-five letters, [must they be] together or [even] scattered? R. Huna said: [They must be] together; R. Hisda said: Even scattered. An objection is raised: If a Scroll of the Law is decayed, if eighty-five letters can be gathered therein, such as the section, 'and it came to pass when the ark set forward etc.,' we must save it; if not, we may not save it. This refutes R. Huna? — R. Hisda expounded it on the basis of R. Huna's [ruling as referring] to words. Our Rabbis taught: 'And it came to pass when the ark set forward that Moses said, [etc.]': for this section the Holy One, blessed be He, provided signs above and below, to teach
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