Kiddushin — Daf 12b

לאו היינו דיהודית דביתהו דרבי חייא דהוית לה צער לידה אמרה ליה אמרה לי אם קיבל ביך אבוך קידושי כי זוטרת אמר לה לאו כל כמינה דאימך דאסרת ליך עילואי

אמרי ליה רבנן לרב חסדא אמאי הא איכא סהדי באידית דידעי דבההוא יומא הוה ביה ש"פ השתא מיהא לא ליתנהו קמן

לאו היינו דר' חנינא דא"ר חנינא עידיה בצד אסתן ותיאסר

אביי ורבא לא סבירא להו להא דרב חסדא אם הקילו בשבויה דמנוולה נפשה גבי שבאי ניקיל באשת איש

אישתאר מההיא משפחה בסורא ופרשו רבנן מינה ולאו משום דסבירא להו דשמואל אלא משום דסבירא להו כאביי ורבא

ההוא גברא דאקדיש בשוטיתא דאסא בשוקא שלחה רב אחא בר הונא לקמיה דרב יוסף כה"ג מאי שלח ליה נגדיה כרב ואצטריך גיטא כשמואל

דרב מנגיד על דמקדש בשוקא ועל דמקדש בביאה ועל דמקדש בלא שידוכי

ועל דמבטיל גיטא ועל דמסר מודעא אגיטא ועל דמצער שלוחא דרבנן ועל דחלה שמתא עילויה תלתין יומין

ועל חתנא דדייר בי חמוה דדייר אין חליף לא והא ההוא חתנא דחליף אבבא דבי חמוה ונגדיה רב ששת ההוא מידם הות דיימא חמתיה מיניה

נהרדעי אמרי בכולהו לא מנגיד רב אלא על דמקדש בביאה בלא שידוכי ואיכא דאמרי ואפילו בשידוכי נמי משום פריצותא

ההוא גברא דקדיש בציפתא דאסא אמרו ליה והא לית בה ש"פ אמר להו תיקדוש בארבע זוזי דאית בה שקלתא ואישתיקא אמר רבא הוה שתיקותא דלאחר מתן מעות וכל שתיקותא דלאחר מתן מעות לאו כלום היא

אמר רבא מנא אמינא לה דתניא אמר לה כנסי סלע זו בפקדון וחזר ואמר לה התקדשי לי בו בשעת מתן מעות מקודשת לאחר מתן מעות רצתה מקודשת לא רצתה אינה מקודשת

מאי רצתה ומאי לא רצתה אילימא רצתה דאמרה אין לא רצתה דאמרה לא מכלל דרישא

For is this not comparable to the case of Judith, R. Hiyya's wife, who had severe travail in childbirth.1 Said she to him: My mother told me: ‘Your father accepted kiddushin on your behalf [from another man] when you were a child.’2 He replied to her: It does not rest entirely with your mother to forbid you to me. The Rabbis protested to R. Hisda: Why so? But there are3 witnesses In Idith4 who know that on that day it was worth a perutah! — Nevertheless, at present they are not before us. Is this not analogous to R. Hanina's dictum, For R. Hanina said: Her witnesses are in the north,5 yet she is to be forbidden!6 Abaye and Raba, [however], do not agree with this ruling of R. Hisda: if they [the Rabbis] were lenient in respect of a captive woman,7 who suffered disgrace under her captors,8 shall we be [equally] lenient in the case of a married woman?9 Some of that family remained in Sura,10 and the Rabbis held aloof from them;11 not because they agreed with Samuel, but because they agreed with Abaye and Raba.12 A certain man betrothed [a woman] with a myrtle branch in a market place. Thereupon R. Aha b. Huna sent [a question] to R. Joseph: How is it in such a case? — He sent back: Have him flagellated, in accordance with Rab; and demand a divorce, in accordance with Samuel.13 For Rab punished any man who betrothed [a woman] in a market place, or by intercourse,14 or without [previous] shiddukin,15 or who annulled a divorce,16 or who lodged a protest against a divorce,17 or harassed a messenger of the Rabbis,18 or per — mitted a ban to remain upon him thirty days,19 and a son-in-law who dwelt in his mother-in-law's house thirty days.20 Only him who dwelt, but not him who merely passed by [his mother-in-law's house]? But a certain son-in-law passed by his mother-in-law's door, for which R. Shesheth chastised him? — There his mother-in-law was [already] under suspicion through him. The Nehardeans maintained: For all these Rab inflicted no punishment, excepting for betrothing [a woman] by intercourse without shiddukin — others state, even with shiddukin, on account of licentiousness.21 A certain man betrothed [a woman] with a mat of myrtle twigs. Said they to him, ‘But it is not worth a perutah!’22 ‘Then let her be betrothed for the four zuz it contains,’ replied he.23 Having taken it, she remained silent. Said Raba: It is silence after receipt24 of the money, and such silence has no significance.25 Raba said: Whence do I know26 this? For it was taught: If he says to her, ‘Take this sela’ as a bailment ,’ and then he says to her, ‘Be thou betrothed unto me therewith’, [if he made the declaration] when giving the money [and she accepted it without protest], she is betrothed; after giving the money: if she consented, she is betrothed; if not, she is not betrothed. What is meant by ‘she consented,’ ‘she did not consent’? Shall we say: ‘she consented’ means that she said ‘yes’, and ‘she did not consent,’ that she said: ‘no’? Then it follows that the first clause means Worterbuch, s.v. , hrut , mentions a conjecture that the word may mean ‘north’, and denotes generally a distant, unknown country. priestly marriage is forbidden her only by Rabbinical law, for fear that she was outraged by her captors; hence we are lenient where the existence of such witnesses is only alleged. But in the case under discussion, should witnesses attest that the stone was worth a perutah when given, she is certainly a married woman and forbidden to others; therefore regard must be paid to the allegation that such witnesses exist elsewhere. the canals, and seat of the famous academy founded by Rab. V. Obermeyer 283 et seqq. bastardy. of this and deliver the divorce, and the wife contract another marriage. Keth. V. 6; impotence, Ned. XI, 12), he had to declare that he was giving it voluntarily. Yet he might secretly lodge a protest before witnesses that he was giving it under compulsion, in which case it was invalid. amend his ways. Buchler in MGWJ 1934 (Festschrift) p. 129, observes that as far as known the ban, during the days of Jamnia and Usha (first century) was imposed only on scholars, but that in the early amoraic period all were subject to it, as here (v. note 3, a.l.). Pes. 113a. and therefore it was unnecessary for her to reject the proposal. Her subsequent silence makes no difference.