זבחים 110 — Soncino English Talmud

¹in a vessel: one master holds that appointing in a vessel is an act that counts, while the other master holds that it is not an act that counts. Raba said: Now that we have said that there is a view that appointment through a vessel does not count, if one appointed six [logs] for a bullock and removed four of them and offered them up without, he is liable, since they are fit for a ram. If one appointed four [logs] for a ram and removed three of them and offered them up without, he is liable, since they are fit for a lamb. If they [the three logs] were slightly incomplete, he is not liable. R. Ashi said: The Rabbis do not learn nisuk, from haktarah, though it is without from without; they do learn haktarah from haktarah, though it is within from without. IN THE CASE OF ALL OF THESE, IF THEY BECAME SLIGHTLY INCOMPLETE etc. It was asked: Does incompleteness without count as incompleteness, or does it not count as incompleteness? Do we say, since it went out, it was disqualified; what is the difference then whether there is less or more? Or perhaps, only when it goes out and is wholly existent [does it involve liability], but not when it is not wholly existent? — Said Abaye, Come and hear: R. ELEAZAR RULES THAT ONE IS NOT LIABLE UNLESS HE PRESENTS THE WHOLE OF THEM, Rabbah son of R. Hanan objected to Abaye: Does the master solve it from R. Eleazar? — I explicitly heard it from a master, he replied: the Rabbis disagree with R, Eleazar only when the whole of it is available; but if it is incomplete, they agree with him. Surely that means, [even] if it became incomplete without? — No: [only] when it became incomplete within. Come and hear: IN THE CASE OF ALL OF THESE, IF THEY BECAME SLIGHTLY INCOMPLETE AND ONE OFFERED THEM WITHOUT, HE IS NOT LIABLE: does that not mean [even] where it became incomplete without? — No: [only] when it became incomplete within. ONE WHO OFFERS SACRIFICES [etc.]. Why so? surely it interposes? — Said Samuel: It means where he turns them over. R. Johanan said: You may even say that he does not turn them over, but the author of this is R. Simeon who maintained: Even if one offers them up on a rock or on a stone, he is liable. Rab said: One kind is not an interposition for the same kind. MISHNAH. IF THE FISTFUL OF A MEAL-OFFERING WAS NOT [YET] TAKEN, AND ONE OFFERED IT WITHOUT, HE IS NOT LIABLE. IF ONE TOOK OFF THE FISTFUL, THEN REPLACED THE FISTFUL WITHIN IT, AND OFFERED IT WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE. GEMARA, But why so? let the remainder nullify the fistful? — Said R. Zera: Haktarah is stated in connection with the fistful, and haktarah is stated in connection with the remainder: as in the case of the haktarah stated in connection with the fistful, one fistful does not nullify another; so in the case of haktarah stated in connection with the remainder, the remainder does not nullify the fistful. MISHNAH. AS FOR THE FISTFUL AND THE FRANKINCENSE, IF ONE OFFERED ONE OF THEM WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE; R. ELIEZER RULES THAT HE IS NOT LIABLE UNLESS HE OFFERS THE SECOND [TOO]. [IF ONE OFFERED] ONE WITHIN AND THE OTHER WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE, AS FOR THE TWO DISHES OF FRANKINCENSE, IF ONE OFFERED ONE OF THEM WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE; R. ELIEZER RULES THAT HE IS NOT LIABLE UNLESS HE OFFERS THE SECOND [TOO]. [IF ONE OFFERED] ONE WITHIN AND THE OTHER WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE. GEMARA. R. Isaac Nappaha asked: Can the fistful permit a proportionate quantity of the remainder? does it [the fistful] indeed permit, or does it merely weaken [the prohibition]? — On whose view [is this question asked]? If on the view of R. Meir, who maintained, You can render a sacrifice piggul through half of the mattir, it indeed permits it; and if on the view of the Rabbis who maintained that you cannot render a sacrifice piggul through half of the mattir, it may neither permit nor weaken it? — Rather, [the question is asked] on the view of R. Eliezer. But R. Eliezer agrees with the Rabbis? — Rather, [the question is asked] on the view of the Rabbis here: does it permit, or does it weaken? The question stands over. MISHNAH. IF ONE SPRINKLES PART OF THE BLOOD WITHOUT,^ᵃ^ᵇ^ᶜ^ᵈ^ᵉ^ᶠ^ᵍ^ʰ^ⁱ^ʲ^ᵏ^ˡ^ᵐ^ⁿ^ᵒ^ᵖ^ᵠ^ʳ^ˢ^ᵗ^ᵘ^ᵛ^ʷ^ˣ^ʸ^ᶻ^ᵃᵃ^ᵃᵇ^ᵃᶜ^ᵃᵈ^ᵃᵉ^ᵃᶠ^ᵃᵍ^ᵃʰ

^ᵃnote:Both the Mishnah and the Baraitha treat of haktarah of the Hekal, where Scripture does not prescribe a fixed quantity. Therefore the Baraitha teaches that he is liable, and R. Eleazar agrees, as Rab stated. The controversy in the Mishnah arises where one appointed the whole peras that was to be burnt (by Rabbinical law) for its purpose by placing it in a vessel. R. Eleazar holds that this appointment is a substantial act, in the sense that if the priest does not burn it all in the Hekal it is not haktarah and the community is not quit of its obligation. Therefore one is not liable for burning it without unless he burns the whole of it. The Rabbis, however, hold that this appointing does not count at all, and so it is the same as any other incense.
^ᵇnote:I.e., he put six logs of wine in a vessel, to be used for the drink-offering which accompanied the sacrifice of a bullock.
^ᶜnote:This measure would suffice for a ram, and so he is culpable. If, however, appointment in a vessel counted as a substantial act, he would not be liable unless he offered up the whole six logs without.
^ᵈnote:Because less than three logs are not fit for anything within.
^ᵉnote:The act of offering libations.
^ᶠnote:R. Ashi defends Abaye's explanation, and rebuts Raba's objection. — The text is emended.
^ᵍnote:If the full standard was taken without (whereby it was immediately disqualified for use within), and then some of it was lost before he offered it up: does it count as incomplete or not?
^ʰnote:Since it is disqualified in any case, and yet one is liable for offering it without, he may also be liable when it becomes short without.
^ⁱnote:Thus even if it is taken out whole, there is no liability unless it is offered whole.
^ʲnote:Surely not. For R. Eleazar holds that even if the whole is existent he is not liable unless he offers the whole, whereas the Rabbis hold that if the whole is existent one is liable when he offers as much as an olive. The question is asked on the view of the Rabbis.
^ᵏnote:The flesh interposes between the fire and the emurim, and such would not constitute proper offering up within, for the emurim must lie directly on the fire.
^ˡnote:Sc. that the emurim lie on the fire.
^ᵐnote:If even a proper altar is not necessary, it is certainly not necessary for the emurim to lie directly on the fire.
^ⁿnote:Flesh is the same kind of matter as emurim, and therefore it does not count as an interposition.
^ᵒnote:Because in that state it is not fit for offering within either.
^ᵖnote:Because in that case, if it is offered within, it is valid; Men. 23a.
^ᵠnote:Hence he should not be liable.
^ʳnote:Lev. II: 2: And he shall take thereout his handful . . . and ... shall make (it) smoke (we-hiktir). Ibid. 11: No meal-offering ... shall be made with leaven, for ye shall make no leaven, nor any honey, smoke (lo taktiru) as an offering made by fire unto the Lord. This is interpreted to mean that one must not burn (haktarah) any portion of the meal-offering whereof part is to be ‘an offering made by fire;’ hence it applies to the remainder, as part thereof (viz., the fistful) has been taken as ‘an offering made by fire’.
^ˢnote:Even if it exceeds it.
^ᵗnote:Both must normally be offered before the remainder may be eaten (in the case of a votive meal-offering, to which this refers). Hence the two together are the mattir (v. Glos.), and R. Eliezer holds that one is liable only when he offers without the whole mattir.
^ᵘnote:In this order.
^ᵛnote:Because the second completes it, and had it been offered within, it would have permitted the consumption of the remainder.
^ʷnote:The burning of which permitted the eating of the Shewbread.
^ˣnote:Or, the smith.
^ʸnote:V. n. 6, p. 540. If one burned the fistful alone, stating that this was to permit part of the remainder (which he determined beforehand), while the other part was to be permitted by the frankincense, is the first part thus permitted?
^ᶻnote:Does the fistful completely permit part, in which case this part is now permitted; or does it merely weaken the prohibition of the whole, while the frankincense finally removes it? in that case it will still be forbidden.
^ᵃᵃnote:If the priest declares a piggul intention at the burning of either the fistful or the frankincense, the offering is piggul.
^ᵃᵇnote:For a sacrifice can be rendered piggul only through a rite which completely permits it (or at least, a portion thereof), just as sprinkling completely permits an animal sacrifice. R. Meir then must certainly hold that the burning of the fistful permits part of the remainder,
^ᵃᶜnote:There is no proof that on their view the burning of the fistful either permits part or even weakens the prohibition of the whole.
^ᵃᵈnote:In our Mishnah: since he rules that one is not liable for burning that alone without, it may be that he holds that it permits part only.
^ᵃᵉnote:Sc. those who disagree with R. Meir, — I.e., the same difficulty that arises on the view of the Rabbis, sc. that they may hold that it neither permits nor weakens, arises on the view of R. Eliezer.
^ᵃᶠnote:In our Mishnah.
^ᵃᵍnote:Since they maintain that one is liable for burning the fistful alone without, they must regard the same within as a proper haktarah, even without the frankincense. Hence the question, in respect of what is it haktarah: is it in respect of permitting part, or in respect of weakening the whole?
^ᵃʰnote:E.g., he made one application only; this holds good even in the case of the inner sin-offerings, where all the four applications are indispensable.

²HE IS LIABLE. R. ELEAZAR SAID: ALSO HE WHO MAKES A LIBATION OF THE WATER OF THE FESTIVAL, ON THE FESTIVAL, WITHOUT, IS LIABLE. R. NEHEMIAH SAID: IF ONE PRESENTED THE RESIDUE OF THE BLOOD WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE. GEMARA. Raba said: R. Eleazar too agrees in the case of blood. For we learnt: R. Eleazar and R. Simeon maintained: From where he left off, there he recommences. R. ELEAZAR SAID: ALSO HE WHO MAKES A LIBATION OF THE WATER OF THE FESTIVAL, ON THE FESTIVAL, WITHOUT, IS LIABLE. R. Johanan said on the authority of R. Menahem of Jotapata: R. Eleazar ruled thus in accordance with the thesis of R. Akiba, his teacher, who maintained [that] the pouring of water [on the Feast of Tabernacles] is [required] by Scriptural law, For it was taught: R. Akiba said: And the drink-offerings thereof: Scripture speaks of two drink-offerings, viz., the libation of water and the libation of wine. Said Resh Lakish to R. Johanan: If so, just as there three logs [are required], so here too three logs [are required], whereas R. Eleazar speaks of THE WATER OF THE FESTIVAL? [Again,] if so, just as there [there is liability] during the rest of the year, so here too [one should be liable] during the rest of the year, whereas R. Eleazar says [that one is only liable] ON THE FESTIVAL? He, however, had overlooked R. Assi's statement in R. Johanan's name. For R. Assi said in the name of R. Johanan on the authority of R, Nehunia of the valley of Beth Hauran: Ten Saplings, the Willow, and the Water Libation are Mosaic laws from Sinai. Our Rabbis taught: One who makes a libation of three logs of water on the Feast [of Tabernacles], without, is liable. R. Eleazar said: If he drew it for the sake of the Feast, he is liable. Wherein do they disagree? — Said R. Nahman b. Isaac: They disagree as to whether a standard quantity of water is required. R. Papa said: [^ᵃⁱ^ᵃʲ^ᵃᵏ^ᵃˡ^ᵃᵐ^ᵃⁿ^ᵃᵒ^ᵃᵖ^ᵃᵠ^ᵃʳ^ᵃˢ^ᵃᵗ^ᵃᵘ

^ᵃⁱnote:Special water libations on the altar were made during the Feast of Tabernacles. If one makes a libation without of the water specially drawn for this purpose, he is liable.
^ᵃʲnote:Of these sin-offerings whose blood must be poured out at the base of the altar.
^ᵃᵏnote:He accepts the view in the Mishnah, though he disagrees in the case of frankincense.
^ᵃˡnote:V. supra 42a. If the blood is accidentally spilt after the first application, a second animal is slaughtered, and the sprinkling is continued, starting with the second application. Thus the first application was effective, and therefore if it is made without, it entails liability.
^ᵃᵐnote:A fortress in Galilee.
^ᵃⁿnote:Num. XXIX, 31. This refers to the drinkofferings which accompanied the animal sacrifices on Tabernacles, R. Akiba stresses the plural ‘offerings’.
^ᵃᵒnote:Hence it is Scriptural, and since it is a Scriptural rite, one is liable for doing it without.
^ᵃᵖnote:If R. Eleazar based his view on R. Akiba's interpretation, then one should argue: since the rite is learnt from the plural form, ‘drink-offerings’, the two are alike, and there is no liability for less than three logs without. R. Eleazar, however, merely speaks of THE WATER OF THE FESTIVAL, which may, on one view, be one log (Suk. 48a).
^ᵃᵠnote:Or, Beth Haurathan. A town in a valley S.E. of Damascus, and a station for announcing the New Moon; cf. Ezek, XLVII, 18; R.H. 22b.
^ᵃʳnote:The whole of a plantation fifty cubits square, containing at least ten saplings (the definition of ‘saplings’ is given in Shebi.I.) may be ploughed until the very end of the sixth year (the seventh is the Sabbatical year). In a plantation of older trees tilling must cease at least one month before.
^ᵃˢnote:The circuits around the altar with a willow during the Feast of Tabernacles.
^ᵃᵗnote:Thus not only R. Akiba, but all the Rabbis agree that the Water Libation is Scriptural. As, however, this is a Mosaic tradition, and not directly indicated in Scripture, one is not bound by the analogy of the Wine Libation; hence three logs are not needed. — ‘He overlooked’ presumably means Menahem of Jotapata, and though R. Johanan cites both statements, the present one may be of later date, when he had rejected Menahem's view (Tosaf.).
^ᵃᵘnote:The first Tanna holds that it is, and so liability is incurred only for three logs, neither more nor less. R. Eleazar maintains that there is no standard: consequently, this condition of three logs holds good only if the water was specially drawn for libations in the vessel used for the purpose, which held three logs, whereby the vessel appointed the whole of the three logs (cf. supra a top). But if the vessel did not thus appoint it, one is liable even for less. (Tosaf. Rashi explains it otherwise.)