Soncino English Talmud
Shabbat
Daf 7a
E.g., when it has barriers, and [this is] in accordance with the following dictum of 'Ulla in R. Johanan's name: An enclosure more than two se'ahs [in area] which is not enclosed in attachment to a dwelling place, even if it is a kor or two kor [in area], if one throws [an article] therein [from public ground] he is liable. What is the reason? It is a partitioned area, but it lacks inhabitants. Now, as for R. Ashi, it is well that he does not explain it as 'Ulla; but why does 'Ulla not explain it in accordance with his own dictum? — He answers you: if it has barriers, is it called a plain: [surely] it is an enclosure! And R. Ashi? — 'Private ground' is taught. 'And a karmelith.' Are then all these [sea, plain and colonnade] too not karmelith? — When R. Dimi came, he said in the name of R. Johanan: This is necessary only in respect of a corner near a street: though the masses sometimes press and overflow therein, yet since it is inconvenient for [general] use, it ranks as a karmelith. When R. Dimi came, he said in R. Johanan's name: [The place] between the pillars is treated as a karmelith. What is the reason? Though the general public walk through there, since they cannot proceed with ease, it is as a karmelith. R. Zera said in Rab Judah's name: The balcony in front of the pillars is treated as a karmelith. Now, he who stated thus of [the ground] between the pillars, — how much more so the balcony! But he who mentions the balcony-only the balcony [ranks as a karmelith], because it is inconvenient for [general] use, but not [the ground] between the pillars, which is convenient for [general] use. Another version: but [the place] between the pillars, through which the public occasionally walk, is as public ground. Rabbah b. Shila said in R. Hisda's name: If a brick is standing upright in the street, and one throws [an article] and it adheres to its side, he is liable; on top, he is not liable. Abaye and Raba both state: Providing that it is three handbreadths high, so that the public do not step on it; but thorns and shrubs, even if not three [handbreadths] high. Hiyya b. Rab maintained: Even thorns and shrubs, but not dung. R. Ashi ruled: Even dung. Rabbah, of the school of R. Shila, said: When R. Dimi came, he said in the name of R. Johanan: No karmelith can be less than four [handbreadths square]. And R. Shesheth said: And it extends up to ten. What is meant by, 'and it extends up to ten?' Shall we say that only if there is a partition ten [handbreadths high] is it a karmelith, not otherwise; but is it not? Surely R. Gidal said in the name of R. Hiyya b. Joseph in Rab's name: In the case of a house, the inside of which is not ten [hand breadths in height] but its covering makes it up to ten, it is permitted to carry on the roof over the whole [area]; but within, one may carry only four cubits! But what is meant by 'and it extends up to ten?' That only up to ten is it a karmelith, but not higher. And even as Samuel said to Rab Judah, Keen scholar! In matters concerning the Sabbath do not consider aught above ten. In what respect? Shall we say, that there is no private ground above ten? Surely R. Hisda said: If one fixes a rod in private ground and throws [an article from the street] and it alights on the top, even if it is a hundred cubits high, he is liable, because private ground extends up to heaven!