פסחים 74 — Soncino English Talmud

¹CHAPTERVII MISHNAH. HOW IS THE PASSOVER-OFFERING ROASTED? WE BRING A SPIT OR POMEGRANATE WOOD AND THRUST IT INTO ITS MOUTH [RIGHT DOWN] AS FAR AS ITS BUTTOCKS, AND PLACE ITS KNEES AND ITS ENTRAILS INSIDE IT: THIS IS THE VIEW OF R. JOSE THE GALILEAN. R. AKIBA SAID: THIS IS IN THE NATURE OR SEETHING; BUT THEY ARE HUNG OUTSIDE IT. ONE MAY NOT ROAST THE PASSOVER-OFFERING EITHER ON A [METAL] SPIT OR ON A GRILL. R. ZADOK SAID: IT ONCE HAPPENED THAT R. GAMALIEL SAID TO HIS SERVANT TABI, GO OUT AND ROAST US THE PASSOVER-OFFERING ON THE GRILL.’ GEMARA. But let us bring [a spit] of metal? — When part of it is hot the whole of it is hot, and so [part of] it is roasted through the spit, whereas the Divine Law saith, roast with fire, and not roast through something else. But let us bring [a spit] of palm wood? — Since it has grooves it exudes water [sap], so that it would be like boiled. Then let us bring [a spit] of fig wood? — Since it is hollow, it exudes water, so that it is like boiled. Then let us bring [a spit] of the oak tree, the carob tree or the sycamore tree? — Because it has knots it exudes water. [But the wood] of the pomegranate tree too has knots? — Its knots are smooth. Alternatively, this refers to a shoot of this [i.e., the first] year's growth, which has no knots. But there is the point where it is cut? — He causes the point where it is cut to protrude without [the animal]. Our Mishnah is not according to R. Judah. For it was taught, R. Judah said: Just as a wooden spit is not burnt, so a metal spit does not boil [the flesh]. Said they to him: This [sc. metal], if part of it is hot, the whole of it is hot; whereas the other [wood], if part of it is hot, the whole of it is not hot. AND WE PLACE ITS KNEES, etc. It was taught: R. Ishmael called it tok tok. R. Tarfon called it a helmeted goat. Our Rabbis taught: What is the helmeted goat which it is nowadays forbidden to eat on the nights of Passover? Wherever the whole is roasted in one [piece]. If a lamb was cut from it, [or] if a limb of it was boiled, that is not a helmeted goat. Now that you say that if a limb was cut from it, even if he roasted it together with it, it is not [a helmeted goat], [if a limb is] boiled need it [be stated]? — Said R. Shesheth: It means that he boiled it while attached [to the whole animal]. Rabbah said: A stuffed [lamb] is permitted. Said Abaye to him: But [the lamb] absorbs the blood? As it absorbs, so it exudes, he answered him. Shall we say that this supports him: AND [WE] PLACE ITS KNEES AND ITS ENTRAILS INSIDE IT: what is the reason? Is it not because we say, as it absorbs, so it exudes? — I will tell you: it is different there, [for] since there is the place of slaughtering, which is hollow,^ᵃ^ᵇ^ᶜ^ᵈ^ᵉ^ᶠ^ᵍ^ʰ^ⁱ^ʲ^ᵏ^ˡ^ᵐ^ⁿ^ᵒ^ᵖ^ᵠ^ʳ

^ᵃnote:The entrails inside the animal are like meat in a pot, which is seething, not roasting.
^ᵇnote:This is explained in the Gemara.
^ᶜnote:Metal-iron — being a good conductor of heat.
^ᵈnote:The flesh actually in contact with it is roasted in the heat of the spit, not by the heat of the fire.
^ᵉnote:Ex. XII,8.
^ᶠnote:Having a marrow-like substance inside.
^ᵍnote:Hence they do not exude sap.
^ʰnote:Which naturally exudes moisture.
^ⁱnote:For being inside the lamb it is protected from the fire.
^ʲnote:Thus he permits the use of a metal spit.
^ᵏnote:Hence there is no analogy between the two.
^ˡnote:‘Tok’ is the sound of boiling. Thus he held that the knees etc. are placed inside it, so that it emits a sound of boiling. MS. M. reads: R. Ishmael called it a takbera i.e., a basket, as the animal was stuffed with the loose pieces, v. Jast. s.v. trcf,.
^ᵐnote:He held that the knees etc. must hang outside, so that it looked like a helmet on the head of a warrior.
^ⁿnote:I.e., after the destruction of the Temple; v. supra 53a.
^ᵒnote:Surely it is superfluous.
^ᵖnote:I.e., the lamb being stuffed with meat salted only enough for roasting, which is less than is required by law when it is to be boiled (Rashi). Blood in flesh is forbidden, hence the prescribed, process of soaking and salting in order to draw it out.
^ᵠnote:Which exudes from the pieces of meat with which it is stuffed when the whole is roasted.
^ʳnote:It exudes on the outside the same amount of blood which it first absorbs on the inside.

²[the blood] indeed oozes out. Shall we say that this supports him: The heart must be torn and the blood withdrawn; if he did not tear it [open], he must tear it after it is boiled and it is permitted. What is the reason? Is it not because we say, as it absorbs, so it exudes? — The heart is different, because it is smooth. But surely Rabin the Elder put a paste of dough over a [roasted] pigeon for Rab, and he [Rab] said to him, ‘If the paste is good [tasty], give it me and I will eat it?’ — That was [done] with [a paste of] fine flour, which is crumbly. But Raba visited the home of the Resh Galutha and they put a paste of dough over a [roasted] duck for him. Said he, ‘Had I not seen that it was as clear as white glass, I would not eat of it.’ Now should you think, as it absorbs, so it exudes, why particularly when it is clear; [it is permitted] even if not clear? — There it was [prepared] with white flour, so that it [the paste] is compact. Now the law is: [a paste] of finest flour, whether it looks red or does not look red, is permitted; [a paste] of white flour: if it is as clear as white glass, it is permitted, if not, it is forbidden; [a paste] of other flours: if it looks red, it is forbidden; if it does not look red, it is permitted. [As to] a stuffed [lamb], he who forbids [does so] even if the mouth is at the bottom; while he who permits [does so] even if the mouth is on top. Now the law is: a stuffed [lamb, etc.] is permitted even if the mouth is on top. [With regard to] raw meat, eggs, and the jugular veins, R. Aha and Rabina differ therein. (In the whole Torah R. Aha is stringent while Rabina is lenient, and the law is as Rabina [viz.,] as the lenient [view]; except in these three, where R. Aha is lenient and Rabina is stringent, and the law is as R. Aha, [viz.,] as the lenient view.) If raw meat turns reddish, if one cuts and salts it, it is permitted even for a pot; if one impales it on a spit [over the fire], it is permitted, [because] it [the blood] certainly oozes out. If he placed it on [burning] coals, R. Aha and Rabina differ therein; one forbids and the other permits. He who forbids [holds that] it [the fire] binds [the blood], while he who permits [holds] that it draws [the blood] out. And the law is: it does indeed draw [the blood] out. Similarly with eggs: if he cut and salted them, they are permitted even for a pot. If he suspended them from a spit, they are permitted, [because] it [the blood] certainly oozes out. If he laid them on coals, Aha and Rabina differ therein: one forbids and the other permits them. He who forbids [holds]: it certainly binds [the blood]; while he who permits [maintains]: it draws it out. Similarly with the [throat portion containing the] jugular veins: if he cut and salted it, it is permitted even for a pot; if he suspended it on a spit, the place of the cut being underneath, it is permitted, [because] it does indeed ooze out. If he laid it on coals, R. Aha and Rabina differ therein: one forbids and the other permits. He who forbids [holds]: it does indeed bind [the blood]; while he who permits [maintains]: it draws it out. And the law is: it draws it out. Raw meat which turns red, its serum is forbidden; if it does not turn red, its serum is permitted. Rabina said: Even if it does not turn red, its serum is forbidden, [for] it cannot but contain streaks of blood. Mar b. Amemar said to R. Ashi: My father did indeed drink it. Others say: R. Ashi himself drank it. Mar b. Amemar said to R. Ashi: Vinegar which had been used once for contracting [meat], my father would not use it again for contracting’. How does it differ from weak vinegar, which may be used for contracting’? — There^ˢ^ᵗ^ᵘ^ᵛ^ʷ^ˣ^ʸ^ᶻ^ᵃᵃ^ᵃᵇ^ᵃᶜ^ᵃᵈ^ᵃᵉ^ᵃᶠ^ᵃᵍ^ᵃʰ^ᵃⁱ^ᵃʲ^ᵃᵏ^ᵃˡ^ᵃᵐ^ᵃⁿ^ᵃᵒ^ᵃᵖ

^ˢnote:The animal being hung throat downwards.
^ᵗnote:Before it is boiled; the heart is full of blood and therefore ordinary salting, as is done with other flesh, is insufficient.
^ᵘnote:Rashi: this is assumed to mean, after it is roasted over an open fire, roasting being occasionally referred to as boiling, v. II Chron. XXXV, 13: and they boiled (wa-yebashshelu) the passover with fire according to the ordinance.
^ᵛnote:V. Hul. 109a.
^ʷnote:The reference is not to the heart absorbing blood from other meat, but to one part of the heart absorbing blood from another, and it is now suggested that it exudes the same blood, since it is roasted over an open fire.
^ˣnote:Hence it does not absorb, so that even if it were boiled in a pot it would be permitted, though there that it is not directly over the fire we certainly cannot say, so it exudes.
^ʸnote:Now the paste absorbs blood from the roasted pigeon; since he wanted to eat it, he must have known that it reexudes it.
^ᶻnote:And so leaves room for the blood to ooze.
^ᵃᵃnote:V. Glos.
^ᵃᵇnote:Which prevents the blood from oozing.
^ᵃᶜnote:Even in the former case we assume that the blood which the paste absorbed certainly oozed out, the redness being a mere hue which it leaves.
^ᵃᵈnote:When it is suspended for roasting; though there is no opening for the blood to run out, it nevertheless oozes out through the flesh.
^ᵃᵉnote:Umza is raw meat, unsalted and unsoaked. Blood in flesh is forbidden only if it travels from one part of the flesh to another. But if it remains in its original place, e.g., when raw meat is pickled dry, it is permitted (Rashi).
^ᵃᶠnote:The eggs of a male. Rashi: the controversy infra arises when they look red. Tosaf.: these eggs are covered with a membrane which is forbidden on account of blood, hence the controversy.
^ᵃᵍnote:Where R. Aha and Rabina differ.
^ᵃʰnote:To allow for the blood to flow out.
^ᵃⁱnote:Even if only slightly salted, as one salts ordinary meat when it is to be roasted.
^ᵃʲnote:Though not before it has time to travel from its place.
^ᵃᵏnote:I.e., the throat.
^ᵃˡnote:So that the blood can flow out.
^ᵃᵐnote:This is R. Aha's view; though he permits the meat itself, he agrees that the serum is forbidden.
^ᵃⁿnote:The serum.
^ᵃᵒnote:Meat was washed in vinegar in order to contract the blood vessels and bind the blood.
^ᵃᵖnote:Because after it has been used once the vinegar loses its strength to bind the blood in its place.