Pesachim

and the creditor can come and redeem it,1 for we learned: He adds another denar and redeems this property.2 They differ where the creditor sold or dedicated [it].3 Abaye said: ‘He collects retrospectively’; since the time [for payment] came and he did not repay him, the matter was retrospectively revealed that from the [very] beginning it stood in his4 possession, and he rightly dedicated or sold [it]. But Raba ruled: ‘He collects from now and onwards’; since if he [the debtor] had money, he could have quitted him with money, it is found that he [the creditor] acquires it only now. Yet did Raba say thus? Surely Rami b. Hama said: if Reuben sold his estate to Simeon with security,5 and he [Simeon] set it [the money] up as a loan against himself,6 then Reuben died, and Reuben's creditor came and seized [the estate] from Simeon, whereupon Simeon went and satisfied him with money, it is by right that the children of Reuben can go and say to Simeon, ‘As for us, we [maintain that] our father left [us] movables in your possession, and the movables of orphans are not under lien to a creditor.’7 Now Raba said: If Simeon is wise, he lets them seize the land, and then he reclaims it from them.8 For R. Nahman said: If orphans seize land for their father's debt,9 a creditor [of their father] can in turn seize it from them. Now, if you agree that he [a creditor] collects retrospectively, it is right: for that reason he in turn can seize it from them, because it is just as though they had seized it in their father's lifetime. But if you say that he collects it from now and henceforth, why can he in turn seize it from them: surely it is as though the orphans had bought [immovable] property,10 and if orphans buy [immovable] property, is it then under a lien to [their father's] creditor? — There it is different, because he can say to them, just as I was indebted11 to your father, so I was indebted to your father's creditor. [This follows] from R. Nathan[‘s dictum]. For it was taught, R. Nathan said: How do we know that if one man [claims a maneh from his neighbour, and his neighbor [claims a like sum] from another neighbour, that we collect from the one [the last] and give to the other [the first]? From the verse, and he shall give it unto him to whom he is indebted.12 We learned: IF A GENTILE LENT [MONEY] TO AN ISRAELITE ON HIS LEAVEN, AFTER PASSOVER IT IS PERMITTED FOR USE. It is right if you say that he collects retrospectively: therefore it is permitted for use. But if you say that he collects from now and henceforth, why is it permitted for use? [Surely] it stood in the possession of the Israelite! — The circumstances here are that he deposited it with him.13 Shall we say that it is dependent on Tannaim: If an Israelite lent [money] to a Gentile on his leaven, after Passover he does not transgress.14 In R. Meir's name it was said: he does transgress. Now do they not differ in this, viz., one Master holds [that] he collects retrospectively, while the other Master holds [that] he collects from now and onwards.15 — Now is that logical! Consider the second clause: But if a Gentile lent [money] to an Israelite on his leaven, after Passover he transgresses on all views. But surely the reverse [of the rulings in the first clause] is required: according to the view there [in the first clause] that he does not transgress, here he does transgress; [while] according to the view there that he does transgress, here he does not transgress! 16 creditor adds (i.e., gives) just one denar as a formal redemption and seizes it. Thus in both cases they agree that the pledge belonged retrospectively to the creditor. our father which were in your possession, I.e., you merely owed him money, the field actually being yours; hence you should not have given that money to the creditor, because movables inherited by orphans are not subject to any lien; nor had you the right to withhold payment. Hence you still owe us the money. they had inherited land, not movables. Then he can demand its return, since their father had indemnified him against loss. they are dependent on whether the creditor collects retrospectively or from now and onwards.