Moed Katan — Daf 16a

זו עשירית האיפה שלו דברי רבי יהודה

ר"ש אומר (יחזקאל מד, כז) בבאו יקריב בזמן שראוי לביאה ראוי להקרבה בזמן שאינו ראוי לביאה אינו ראוי להקרבה

אמר רבא מנלן דמשדרין שליחא דבי דינא ומזמנינן ליה לדינא דכתיב (במדבר טז, יב) וישלח משה לקרא לדתן ולאבירם בני אליאב ומנלן דמזמנינן לדינא דכתיב (במדבר טז, טז) ויאמר משה אל קרח אתה וכל עדתך

לקמי גברא רבה דכתיב (במדבר טז, טז) לפני ה' את ופלניא דכתיב אתה והם ואהרן דקבעינן זימנא דכתיב מחר זימנא בתר זימנא דכתיב (ירמיהו מו, יז) קראו שם פרעה מלך מצרים שאון העביר המועד

ומנלן דאי מתפקר בשליחא דבי דינא ואתי ואמר לא מיתחזי כלישנא בישא דכתיב (במדבר טז, יד) העיני האנשים ההם תנקר

ומנלן דמשמתינן דכתיב (שופטים ה, כג) אורו מרוז דהכי סברא דגברא רבה דכתיב (שופטים ה, כג) אמר מלאך ה' ומנלן דמחרמינן דכתיב אורו ארור

דאכיל ושתי בהדיה וקאי בארבע אמות דידיה דכתיב יושביה ומנלן דפרטינן חטאיה בציבורא דכתיב (שופטים ה, כג) כי לא באו לעזרת ה'

ואמר עולא בד' מאה שיפורי שמתיה ברק למרוז איכא דאמרי גברא רבה הוה ואיכא דאמרי כוכבא הוה שנאמר (שופטים ה, כ) מן שמים נלחמו הכוכבים

ומנלן דמפקרינן נכסיה דכתיב (עזרא י, ח) וכל אשר לא יבא לשלשת הימים בעצת השרים והזקנים יחרם כל רכושו והוא יבדל מקהל הגולה

ומנלן דנצינן ולייטינן ומחינן ותלשינן שיער ומשבעינן דכתיב (נחמיה יג, כה) ואריב עמם ואקללם ואכה מהם אנשים ואמרטם ואשביעם

ומנלן דכפתינן ואסרינן ועבדינן הרדפה דכתיב (עזרא ז, כו) הן למות הן לשרושי הן לענש נכסין ולאסורין מאי לשרושי אמר אדא מרי אמר נחמיה בר ברוך אמר רב חייא בר אבין אמר רב יהודה הרדפה מאי הרדפה אמר רב יהודה בריה דרב שמואל בר שילת משמיה דרב מנדין לאלתר ושונין לאחר ל' ומחרימין לאחר ששים

א"ל רב הונא בר חיננא הכי אמר רב חסדא מתרין ביה שני וחמישי ושני ה"מ לממונא אבל לאפקירותא לאלתר

ההוא טבחא דאיתפקר ברב טובי בר מתנה אימנו עליה אביי ורבא ושמתוהו לסוף אזל פייסיה לבעל דיניה אמר אביי היכי ליעביד לישרי ליה לא חל שמתא עליה תלתין יומין לא לישרי ליה קא בעו רבנן למיעל

א"ל לרב אידי בר אבין מידי שמיע לך בהא א"ל הכי אמר רב תחליפא בר אבימי אמר שמואל טוט אסר וטוט שרי אמר ליה ה"מ לממונא אבל לאפקירותא עד דחיילא שמתא עליה תלתין יומין

אלמא קסבר אביי הני בי תלתא דשמיתו לא אתו תלתא אחריני ושרו ליה

דאיבעיא להו הני בי תלתא דשמיתו מהו למיתי תלתא אחריני ושרו ליה ת"ש מנודה לרב מנודה לתלמיד מנודה לתלמיד אינו מנודה לרב

מנודה לעירו מנודה לעיר אחרת מנודה לעיר אחרת אינו מנודה לעירו מנודה לנשיא מנודה לכל ישראל מנודה לכל ישראל אינו מנודה לנשיא רשב"ג אומר אחד מן התלמידים שנידה ומת חלקו אינו מופר

ש"מ תלת שמע מינה תלמיד שנידה לכבודו נידויו נידוי ושמע מינה כל אחד ואחד מיפר חלקו וש"מ הני בי תלתא דשמיתו לא אתו תלתא אחריני ושרו ליה

אמר אמימר הלכתא הני בי תלתא דשמיתו אתו בי תלתא אחריני ושרו ליה א"ל רב אשי לאמימר והא תניא רשב"ג אומר אחד מן התלמידים שנידה ומת חלקו אינו מופר מאי לאו אינו מופר כלל לא עד דאתו בי תלתא אחריני ושרו ליה

ת"ר אין נידוי פחות מל' יום ואין נזיפה פחות מז' ימים ואף על פי שאין ראיה לדבר זכר לדבר שנאמר (במדבר יב, יד) ואביה ירק ירק בפניה הלא תכלם שבעת ימים

אמר רב חסדא נידוי שלנו כנזיפה שלהן ונזיפה דידהו שבעה ותו לא והא ר"ש בר רבי ובר קפרא הוו יתבי וקא גרסי קשיא להו שמעתא א"ל ר"ש לבר קפרא דבר זה צריך רבי א"ל בר קפרא לר"ש ומה רבי אומר בדבר זה

אזל א"ל לאבוה איקפד אתא בר קפרא לאיתחזויי ליה א"ל בר קפרא איני מכירך מעולם ידע דנקט מילתא בדעתיה נהג נזיפותא בנפשיה תלתין יומין

שוב פעם אחד גזר רבי שלא ישנו לתלמידים בשוק מאי דרש (שיר השירים ז, ב) חמוקי ירכיך כמו חלאים מה ירך בסתר

— which is his [own meal-oblation1 consisting of] one tenth part of an ephah [of fine flour]: These are the words of R. Judah. R. Simeon says, [the wording:] And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary [into the inner court to minister in the sanctuary], he shall offer his sinoffering2 [implies that only] when he is fit to go into the sanctuary he is fit to offer up [his own oblation]: and when he is not fit to go into the sanctuary, he is not fit to offer up [his own oblation].3 Raba said: Whence do we know4 the regulation that we send a messenger of the Court?5 — From what is written: And Moses sent to call Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab.6 And whence do we know that we summon7 him to attend [in person]? — From what is written, And Moses said to Korah, Be thou and all thy congregation before the Lord, thou and Aaron [tomorrow].8 [Whence, to appear] ‘before a great personage’? — From what is written, Before the lord.8 [To name both parties], ‘thou and So-and-so’? — From what is written, Thou and they [that are with thee] and Aaron.8 That we fix a time? — As it is written, To-morrow.8 Time and again?9 — As it is written: They called there,10 Pharaoh the king of Eqypt [the author of] ‘commotion’; he hath let the appointed time pass by. [As I live, saith the King, the Lord of Hosts, surely like Tabor among the mountains and like Carmel by the sea, so shall he come].11 And whence do we know that if one behaves insolently towards the Court's messenger and the latter comes and reports it, this is not deemed slander [on his part]? — As it is written: [And Moses sent to call Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab]; And they said: [We will not come up]6 . . . Wilt thou put out the eyes of these men? [We will not come up].12 Whence do we derive that we [may] pronounce a shammetha13 [imprecation]? — From the text: Curse ye Meroz.14 Whence do we derive that it must be according to the considered opinion of some prominent person? — From the text: [Curse ye Meroz] said the angel of the Lord14 [to Barak]. And whence do we derive that we pronounce the herem?15 — Front the [same] text: Curse ye a cursing.16 Whence do we derive that [it falls on one who] eats and drinks with the offender or stands within four cubits of him? — From the same text: [Curse ye a cursing] the inhabitants thereof.17 Whence do we derive that we publish the details of his offence? — From the [same] text: Because they [the denizens of Meroz] came not to the help of the Lord. And, said ‘Ulla, Barak pronounced the shammetha18 against Meroz with [the blast of] four hundred horns. Some say that Meroz was [the name of] a great personage;19 others say that it was [the name of] a star,20 as it is written [there]: They fought from Heaven, the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.21 Whence do we derive that his property may be forfeited?22 — From the text: And whosoever come not within three days, according to the counsel of the princes and the elders, all his substance should be forfeited and himself separated from the congregation of the captivity.23 Whence do we derive that we may quarrel [with an offender], curse him, smite him, pluck his hair and put on him an oath?24 — From the text: And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them and plucked off their hair and made them swear by God.25 Whence do we derive that we may fetter, arrest and prosecute them? — From the text: [Let judgment be executed upon him with all diligence], whether it be unto death, or to uprooting, or to confiscation of goods or to imprisonment.26 What is meant by ‘uprooting? Said [R.] Adda Mari, reporting Nehemiah b. Baruch, who said in the name of R. Hiyya b. Abin, who had it from Rab Judah, it mean the hardafah.27 What is denoted by hardafah? — Said Rab Judah son of R. Samuel b. Shelath in the name of Rab: It means, They declare him ‘separated’28 forthwith; then [if he still persists] they repeat [the same declaration] after thirty days,29 and finally they pronounce the herem on him after sixty days. Said R. Huna b. Hinena, This is what R. Hisda said: They [first] warn him on Monday, [then] on the Thursday30 [following] and [again on the] Monday. This rule applies if he disregards a monetary judgment; but in a case of sheer contumacy the ban is imposed forthwith. When a certain butcher had been insolent to R. Tobai b. Mattena, Abaye and Raba were appointed31 to investigate and they pronounced the shammetha on him. In the end, the fellow went and appeased his litigant.32 Said Abaye, What is one to do? Should we absolve him now? The shammetha had not lasted [its] thirty days.33 Shall we not absolve him? The Rabbis want to go in to him!34 Said lie to R. Idi b. Abin: ‘Have you [perchance] heard aught bearing on this?’ He replied: ‘Thus said R. Tahlifa b. Abimi as reporting Samuel: "A toot35 binds and a toot releases!"’ [Said Abaye] to him, Yea, but this obtains only in the case of disregarding a monetary decision, but in a case of contumacy [it holds] until it has rested on him for thirty days! Anyhow, that shows that Abaye was of opinion that if three people had pronounced the shammetha on a man three others cannot come and release him!36 For the question was raised: If three people had pronounced the shammetha on a man, can three others come and remit it for him? — Come and hear: ‘One who has been "separated" [under a ban] by the master is [deemed as] "separated" from the disciple;37 but one who has been "separated" by the disciple is not [considered as] "separated" from the master. One who is "separated" by his own town is also "separated" from another town; but one who is "separated" by another town is not [considered] "separated" from his own town. One who is "separated" by the Nasi [Prince] is "separated" in all Israel; but one who is "separated" by all Israel is not [thereby] "separated" from the "Prince". Rabban Simeon b. Gamaliel says that if one of the disciples had "separated" someone and died, his part is not nullified’. From this you derive three points: — [a] That if a disciple ‘separated’ someone in [defence of] his personal dignity,38 the ‘separation’ lies, and you infer [b] that each person revokes his own part, and you infer [c] that if a body of three have pronounced a shammetha on a person, three others may not come and release him.39 Amemar said: ‘The rule in practice is, that if a body of three have laid a shammetha on a person, a body of three others [can] come and release him’. Said R. Ashi to Amemar, But it is taught: ‘Rabban Simeon b. Gamaliel says that if one of the disciples "separated" someone and died, his part is not nullified’! Does not this meal, that it cannot be nullified at all? — No, [it means] not until a body of three others come and release him. Our Rabbis taught: No ‘separation’ ban holds less than thirty days and no ‘reproof’40 holds less than seven days; and although there is no direct proof on that point, there is an [indirect] ‘indication’ of it: If her father had but spit in her face, should she41 not hide in shame seven days? [Let her be shut up without the camp seven days and after that he shall be brought in again]. 42 R. Hisda remarked, ‘Our "separation" [in Babylon] corresponds to their "reproof" [in Palestine]’. But is their ‘reproof’ of only seven days’ duration, not more? Is it not a fact that R. Simeon, Rabbi's son, and Bar Kappara were once sitting rehearsing the lesson together when a difficulty arose about a certain passage43 and R. Simeon said to Bar Kappara, ‘This [matter] needs Rabbi [to explain it]’, and Bar Kappara replied: ‘And what forsooth can Rabbi [have to] say on this?’ He went and repeated it to his father, [at which] the latter was vexed, and [when] Bar Kappara next presented himself before Rabbi, he said: ‘Bar Kappara, I have never known you!’44 He realized that he [Rabbi] had taken the matter to heart and submitted himself to the [disability of a] ‘reproof’ for thirty days. Again, on one occasion, Rabbi issued an order that they should not teach disciples in the open public market place. (What was his exposition?45 — How beautiful are thy steps in sandals, O prince's daughter!46 The roundings of thy thighs are like the links of a chain [the work of the hands of a skilled workman].47 As the thigh is covered very day officiate and offer up his own free-gift oblation (v. Men. 73-74a). This proves that as long as he is unclean, whether through contact with dead or through leprosy, he cannot bring his offerings. after his purification and atonement by sacrifices. For a leper had to attend in person to be purified by the stated ceremony (Lev. XIV, 11, 14-18, 20). ‘cursing’ in a Nabatean El-Hejra inscription (Cooke N. Sem. Inscr. No. 80p. 220 line 8); cf. infra 17a note on etymology. Caesarea, Constantinople. popular Babylonian term loosely used for either, and whose legal denotation was the subject of discussion in Talmudic times (e.g., Ned. 7a-b) and later in Geonic responsa; as to its precise meaning, v. B.M. Lewin's Otzar ha-Geonim IV on Mashkin, Responsa 29ff, pp. 17-19. Institutions introduced by Ezra, B.K. 82a (Sonc. ed. p. 466). imposing the ban and who must consequently be present at the absolution, wish to depart and the opportunity of releasing him will thus be lost, v. infra]. imposed in defence of the disciple's own dignity, and not to one for a general transgression.] to mean that it can never be nullified.] well-known master. Kappara clashed with Rabbi on several occasions. The cause, it seems, was not personal, but rather due to the different schools to which they each belonged. B. K. belonged to the ‘Southern Sages’ (Lydda and Caesarea) and was himself the compiler of an often quoted collection of Mishnah (Baraitha). divine) King of Perfection or Peace. Cf. Prov. III, 13-18; VIII, 1 ff.