Beitzah — Daf 5b

ובקש להפקירו לעניים אמרו לו תלמידיו רבי כבר נמנו עליך חבריך והתירוהו מאן חבריך רבן יוחנן בן זכאי

טעמא דנמנו הא לא נמנו לא

מאי ואומר ה"ק מכדי כתיב (שמות יט, טו) היו נכונים לשלשת ימים אל תגשו אל אשה (דברים ה, ל) לך אמור להם שובו לכם לאהליכם למה לי שמע מינה כל דבר שבמנין צריך מנין אחר להתירו

וכי תימא למצות עונה הוא דאתא ת"ש (שמות יט, יג) במשוך היובל המה יעלו בהר

מכדי כתיב (שמות לד, ג) גם הצאן והבקר אל ירעו אל מול ההר ההוא במשוך היובל למה לי שמע מינה דבר שבמנין צריך מנין אחר להתירו

וכי תימא הני מילי בדאורייתא אבל בדרבנן לא ת"ש כרם רבעי והא כרם רבעי דרבנן וקאמרי ליה כבר נמנו עליך חבריך והתירוהו

וכי תימא ביצה נמי אמנו עלה רבן יוחנן בן זכאי ושריוה כי אמנו אעדות אביצה לא אמנו

א"ל אביי אטו ביצה במנין מי הואי ביצה בעדות תליא מלתא אתסר עדות אתסר ביצה אשתרי עדות אשתרי ביצה

רב אדא ורב שלמן תרוייהו מבי כלוחית אמרי אף מתקנת רבן יוחנן בן זכאי ואילך ביצה אסורה מ"ט מהרה יבנה בית המקדש ויאמרו אשתקד מי לא אכלנו ביצה ביום טוב שני השתא נמי ניכול ולא ידעי דאשתקד שתי קדושות הן והשתא קדושה אחת היא

אי הכי עדות נמי לא נקבל מ"ט מהרה יבנה בית המקדש ויאמרו אשתקד מי לא קבלנו עדות החדש כל היום כולו השתא נמי נקבל

הכי השתא התם עדות מסורה לב"ד ביצה לכל מסורה

רבא אמר אף מתקנת רבן יוחנן בן זכאי ואילך ביצה אסורה מי לא מודה רבן יוחנן בן זכאי שאם באו עדים מן המנחה ולמעלה שנוהגין אותו היום קדש ולמחר קדש

ואמר רבא הלכתא כותיה דרב בהני תלת בין לקולא בין לחומרא

and he wished to renounce [the vineyard] for the poor.1 But his disciples said to him: Master, thy colleagues have already taken a vote with respect to your case and permitted it.2 Who are meant by ‘thy colleagues’? R. Johanan b. Zakkai [and his school]. Now the reason [why the fruit may be redeemed] is only because they had taken a vote; but if they had not taken a vote, it would not [have been permitted].3 What is meant by ‘And [Scripture] further says’?4 — He means thus: Consider: It is written: Be ready against the third day, come not near a woman.5 Then what is the purpose of ‘Go say to them, Return ye to your tents’? Infer therefrom that every prohibition decided by a majority vote requires another majority vote to rescind it. And should you reply, it comes as a command concerning conjugal duties,6 [then] come and hear: ‘When the trumpet soundeth long they shall Come up to the mount.’ Now consider: It is written: ‘Neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that Mount.’7 Then what is the purpose of:’ When the trumpet soundeth long they shall come up to the Mount’. Conclude therefrom that what has been prohibited by a majority vote requires another majority vote to rescind it.8 And should you argue, this only applies to the case of a Biblical [prohibition] but not to the case of a Rabbinical [prohibition],9 [then] come and hear: ‘The fourth [year vineyard] fruit, etc.’ Now the law concerning the fourth [year vineyard] fruit is a Rabbinical enactment, and yet they said to him: ‘Thy colleagues have already taken a vote respecting your case and permitted it!’ And if you say10 that R. Johanan b. Zakkai allowed also a vote to be taken concerning an egg and permitted it, [I will reply]: They only took a vote concerning testimony, but concerning the egg they did not take a vote. Said Abaye to him: Has there been then at all a vote taken [at any time] concerning the egg [itself]?11 The egg is dependent on [the acceptance of] testimony: If the testimony of the witnesses is disallowed, then the egg is forbidden12 but if the testimony of the witnesses is permitted then the egg is [a automatically] permitted,13 R. Adda and R. Salmon, both of Be Kelohith14 say: Even [from the time of] the enactment of R. Johanan b. Zakkai and onwards the egg is prohibited. Why? The Temple may very soon be rebuilt,15 and people would say: ‘Did we not eat last year on the second day [of the New Year] the egg [laid on the first day]? Now too, we shall continue to eat it;’ and they will not know that in the previous year16 they [the two days] were of two distinct forms of holiness17 whereas now18 they are one [continuous day of] holiness.19 If so, we should not even accept [the] testimony [of witnesses the whole day]! What is the reason? For the Temple may very soon be rebuilt, and people might say: ‘Did we not accept last year testimony concerning the New Moon during the whole day [long]? Now too, we shall [continue to] accept [their testimony]!’? — Where [is the comparison] in this? [The acceptance of] testimony is entrusted to the Beth din20 [only], but [the case of] the egg is entrusted to all.21 Raba Says: Even since the enactment of R. Johanan b. Zakkai and onwards, the egg is forbidden; [for] does not R. Johanan b. Zakkai agree that if witnesses arrive after Minhah, the remainder of that day and the following day is observed as holy?22 Raba further said: The law [is as] Rab in the foregoing three cases23 whether he is lenient or stringent. [ bring it to Jerusalem. Although R. Eliezer lived after the fall of Jerusalem when the reason for decorating its streets no longer existed, yet he adhered to the ruling that the fruit being within the radius of one day's journey, could not be redeemed but had to be brought to Jerusalem. and bring only the money to Jerusalem. decision, even where the reason for the original decision no longer operates]. is absolutely binding until it has been rescinded; and if the inference is satisfactory, why is it necessary to have a second Scripture text? Rashi. the Divine presence’, from which it might be inferred that only as long as the cloud of the Divine presence remained over the mountain no man or beast could draw near, but when the cloud was removed the people might, by their own inference, have thought that they might now ascend the mountain. witnesses be received until eventide only. second day after the Temple had been rebuilt as he did before the Temple was rebuilt. view, the object of R. Johanan's enactment of accepting witnesses throughout the 30th day was for the purpose of fixing the days of the Festivals following New Year; i.e., if witnesses came any time on the 30th, that day would be the first of Tishri, from which the days of the month would be computed. of New Year.