Zevachim

in a vessel: one master holds that appointing in a vessel is an act that counts, while the other master holds that it is not an act that counts. 1 Raba said: Now that we have said that there is a view that appointment through a vessel does not count, if one appointed six [logs] for a bullock2 and removed four of them and offered them up without, he is liable, since they are fit for a ram.3 If one appointed four [logs] for a ram and removed three of them and offered them up without, he is liable, since they are fit for a lamb. If they [the three logs] were slightly incomplete, he is not liable.4 R. Ashi said: The Rabbis do not learn nisuk,5 from haktarah, though it is without from without; they do learn haktarah from haktarah, though it is within from without.6 IN THE CASE OF ALL OF THESE, IF THEY BECAME SLIGHTLY INCOMPLETE etc. It was asked: Does incompleteness without count as incompleteness, or does it not count as incompleteness?7 Do we say, since it went out, it was disqualified; what is the difference then whether there is less or more?8 Or perhaps, only when it goes out and is wholly existent [does it involve liability], but not when it is not wholly existent? — Said Abaye, Come and hear: R. ELEAZAR RULES THAT ONE IS NOT LIABLE UNLESS HE PRESENTS THE WHOLE OF THEM,9 Rabbah son of R. Hanan objected to Abaye: Does the master solve it from R. Eleazar?10 — I explicitly heard it from a master, he replied: the Rabbis disagree with R, Eleazar only when the whole of it is available; but if it is incomplete, they agree with him. Surely that means, [even] if it became incomplete without? — No: [only] when it became incomplete within. Come and hear: IN THE CASE OF ALL OF THESE, IF THEY BECAME SLIGHTLY INCOMPLETE AND ONE OFFERED THEM WITHOUT, HE IS NOT LIABLE: does that not mean [even] where it became incomplete without? — No: [only] when it became incomplete within. ONE WHO OFFERS SACRIFICES [etc.]. Why so? surely it interposes?11 — Said Samuel: It means where he turns them over.12 R. Johanan said: You may even say that he does not turn them over, but the author of this is R. Simeon who maintained: Even if one offers them up on a rock or on a stone, he is liable.13 Rab said: One kind is not an interposition for the same kind.14 MISHNAH. IF THE FISTFUL OF A MEAL-OFFERING WAS NOT [YET] TAKEN, AND ONE OFFERED IT WITHOUT, HE IS NOT LIABLE.15 IF ONE TOOK OFF THE FISTFUL, THEN REPLACED THE FISTFUL WITHIN IT, AND OFFERED IT WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE.16 GEMARA, But why so? let the remainder nullify the fistful?17 — Said R. Zera: Haktarah is stated in connection with the fistful, and haktarah is stated in connection with the remainder:18 as in the case of the haktarah stated in connection with the fistful, one fistful does not nullify another;19 so in the case of haktarah stated in connection with the remainder, the remainder does not nullify the fistful. MISHNAH. AS FOR THE FISTFUL AND THE FRANKINCENSE, IF ONE OFFERED ONE OF THEM WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE; R. ELIEZER RULES THAT HE IS NOT LIABLE UNLESS HE OFFERS THE SECOND [TOO].20 [IF ONE OFFERED] ONE WITHIN AND THE OTHER WITHOUT,21 HE IS LIABLE,22 AS FOR THE TWO DISHES OF FRANKINCENSE,23 IF ONE OFFERED ONE OF THEM WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE; R. ELIEZER RULES THAT HE IS NOT LIABLE UNLESS HE OFFERS THE SECOND [TOO]. [IF ONE OFFERED] ONE WITHIN AND THE OTHER WITHOUT, HE IS LIABLE. GEMARA. R. Isaac Nappaha24 asked: Can the fistful permit a proportionate quantity of the remainder?25 does it [the fistful] indeed permit, or does it merely weaken [the prohibition]?26 — On whose view [is this question asked]? If on the view of R. Meir, who maintained, You can render a sacrifice piggul through half of the mattir,27 it indeed permits it;28 and if on the view of the Rabbis who maintained that you cannot render a sacrifice piggul through half of the mattir, it may neither permit nor weaken it?29 — Rather, [the question is asked] on the view of R. Eliezer.30 But R. Eliezer agrees with the Rabbis?31 — Rather, [the question is asked] on the view of the Rabbis here:32 does it permit, or does it weaken?33 The question stands over. MISHNAH. IF ONE SPRINKLES PART OF THE BLOOD WITHOUT,34 quantity. Therefore the Baraitha teaches that he is liable, and R. Eleazar agrees, as Rab stated. The controversy in the Mishnah arises where one appointed the whole peras that was to be burnt (by Rabbinical law) for its purpose by placing it in a vessel. R. Eleazar holds that this appointment is a substantial act, in the sense that if the priest does not burn it all in the Hekal it is not haktarah and the community is not quit of its obligation. Therefore one is not liable for burning it without unless he burns the whole of it. The Rabbis, however, hold that this appointing does not count at all, and so it is the same as any other incense. bullock. substantial act, he would not be liable unless he offered up the whole six logs without. was lost before he offered it up: does it count as incomplete or not? short without. whereas the Rabbis hold that if the whole is existent one is liable when he offers as much as an olive. The question is asked on the view of the Rabbis. the emurim must lie directly on the fire. meal-offering ... shall be made with leaven, for ye shall make no leaven, nor any honey, smoke (lo taktiru) as an offering made by fire unto the Lord. This is interpreted to mean that one must not burn (haktarah) any portion of the meal-offering whereof part is to be ‘an offering made by fire;’ hence it applies to the remainder, as part thereof (viz., the fistful) has been taken as ‘an offering made by fire’. this refers). Hence the two together are the mattir (v. Glos.), and R. Eliezer holds that one is liable only when he offers without the whole mattir. remainder. determined beforehand), while the other part was to be permitted by the frankincense, is the first part thus permitted? prohibition of the whole, while the frankincense finally removes it? in that case it will still be forbidden. just as sprinkling completely permits an animal sacrifice. R. Meir then must certainly hold that the burning of the fistful permits part of the remainder, the whole. permits part only. may hold that it neither permits nor weakens, arises on the view of R. Eliezer. proper haktarah, even without the frankincense. Hence the question, in respect of what is it haktarah: is it in respect of permitting part, or in respect of weakening the whole? applications are indispensable.