Soncino English Talmud
Rosh Hashanah
Daf 33a
IT MUST NOT BE SHAPED EITHER WITH AN IMPLEMENT THE USE OF WHICH IS FORBIDDEN ON ACCOUNT OF SHEBUTH OR WITH ONE THE USE OF WHICH IS FORBIDDEN BY EXPRESS PROHIBITION. ‘An instrument the use of which is forbidden on account of shebuth’ — as for instance, a sickle.1 ‘An implement which is forbidden by express prohibition’ — as for instance, a knife. Seeing that you disallow an implement prohibited on account of shebuth, need you mention one disallowed by express prohibition?2 — The Mishnah adopts the style of ‘A and needless to say B’. IF ONE, HOWEVER, DESIRES TO POUR WINE OR WATER INTO IT HE MAY DO SO. Wine or water he may, but urine he may not. Which authority does our Mishnah follow? — That of Abba Saul, as it has been taught: ‘Abba Saul says, Wine or water is permissible, these serving to clean it, but urine is forbidden, as showing disrespect’. 3 CHILDREN NEED NOT BE STOPPED FROM BLOWING. This would imply that women are stopped. [But how can this be], seeing that it has been taught: ‘Neither children nor women need be stopped from blowing the shofar on the Festival’? — Abaye replied: There is no discrepancy; the one statement follows R. Judah, the other R. Jose and R. Simeon, as it has been taught: ‘Speak unto the children [bene] of Israel:4 [this indicates that] the "sons" [bene] of Israel lay on hands but not the "daughters" of Israel. So R. Judah, R. Jose and R. Simeon say that women also have the option of laying on hands’.5 ON THE CONTRARY, THEY MAY BE HELPED UNTIL THEY LEARN HOW TO BLOW. R. Eleazar said: Even on Sabbath. it has been taught to the same effect: ‘They may be helped till they learn how to blow even on Sabbath, and children are not stopped from blowing on Sabbath, and needless to say on a [weekday] holyday’. This statement itself involves a contradiction. You say first, ‘They may be helped till they learn how to blow, even on Sabbath’, from which I should infer that we may actually tell them in the first instance to blow. Then it states, ‘They are not stopped’, which would indicate that we do not go so far as to stop them, but we do not tell them in the first instance to blow! — There is no contradiction: In the one case we speak of not being used for its proper purpose. The Rabbis, however, forbade it on account of shebuth. precept for which a definite time is fixed), they have the option of doing so, and therefore may practise.
Sefaria
Mesoret HaShas