מנחות 38:2 — Soncino English Talmud

Should you say it means that he has not fulfilled the precept of the white [threads] but has fulfilled the precept of the blue, but according to Rabbi the absence of one invalidates the other! — Rab Judah said in the name of Rab, It means that he has not fulfilled the precept and yet has performed the precept, for ‘has not fulfilled the precept’ only means that he has not performed the precept in the best way. This then explains the clause, NEITHER DOES THE WHITE INVALIDATE THE BLUE; but how can one explain the other clause, THE BLUE DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE WHITE? Moreover, it has been reported: Levi once said to Samuel, Arioch, you are not to sit down until you explain to me the following: THE BLUE DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE WHITE, NEITHER DOES THE WHITE INVALIDATE THE BLUE. What does it mean? — He answered, This refers to the fringes in a [white linen] garment; for it is proper to insert the white threads first, since Holy Writ says ‘the corner’, [signifying that the fringes] of the same [colour] as the corner [must be inserted first]; nevertheless, if one inserted the blue first it does not matter. Well, this explains. NEITHER DOES THE WHITE INVALIDATE THE BLUE, but how can one explain, THE BLUE DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE WHITE? — Rami b. Hama answered, The latter rule refers to a garment that is entirely blue, in which case it is proper to insert the blue threads first, since Holy Writ says ‘the corner’, [signifying that the fringes] of the same [colour] as the corner [must be inserted first]; nevertheless, if one inserted the white threads first it does not matter. Raba objected, Does then the colour affect the law? — Raba therefore explained that [our Mishnah] refers to the curtailment of the threads; thus whether the blue [threads] were curtailed and the white remained or the white were curtailed and the blue remained, it does not matter. As the sons of R. Hiyya said, Curtailed blue threads are valid; curtailed hyssop twigs are valid. What is the minimum length of a curtailed thread? — Bar Hamduri stated in the name of Samuel, There must be sufficient to make a loop therewith. The question was raised: Does ‘sufficient to make a loop’ mean to make a loop of all the threads together, or of each thread separately? — This remains undecided. R. Ashi raised the question: How is it if [the curtailed threads] are so thick that one cannot make a loop with them, although had they been thinner one could have made a loop with them? — R. Aha the son of Raba answered R. Ashi, They are most certainly [valid], since the precept is all the more noticeable thereby. Who is the Tanna that disagrees with Rabbi? — It is the Tanna of the following Baraitha. For it was taught: R. Isaac says in the name of R. Nathan who said it in the name of R. Jose the Galilean and who in turn said it in the name of R. Johanan b. Nuri, If a man has no blue threads he should insert all white threads. Raba said, You can infer from this that one must make a knot after each joint; for should you hold that this is not necessary, then how could the sons of R. Hiyya have said, Curtailed blue threads are valid, also curtailed hyssop twigs are valid? As soon as the upper knot becomes loose it would all become undone! —^ᵃ^ᵇ^ᶜ^ᵈ^ᵉ^ᶠ^ᵍ^ʰ^ⁱ^ʲ^ᵏ^ˡ^ᵐ^ⁿ^ᵒ

^ᵃnote:Since it is considered as though the precept of the white threads had not been fulfilled at all, this omission according to Rabbi impairs the validity of the blue; how then can it be said that if the proper precedence was not adhered to it it is still valid?
^ᵇnote:I.e., even though the blue was inserted first it is not invalid.
^ᶜnote:Which would mean apparently that even though the white was inserted first it is not invalid. But that is the proper order of precedence!
^ᵈnote:In cur. edd. is inserted here an answer by Rami b. Hama which is actually given below. It is omitted here in all MSS. and by Sh. Mek.
^ᵉnote:A title of dignity applied to Samuel the contemporary of Rab; probably a Persian adaptation of ‘judge’ (Jast.) V. Rashi here, and in Shab. 53a and also in Hul. 76b. V. also Kid. (Sonc. ed.) p. 189, n. 11.
^ᶠnote:Lit., ‘sit on your legs’, with reference to their custom of sitting on the ground with their legs crossed under them.
^ᵍnote:Once it is established that the white threads must be inserted first — established by reason of the fact that most garments were of white linen and the rule that the fringes similar in colour to the corner of the garment must be inserted first-this law stands and is not altered by reason of the colour of the garment.
^ʰnote:In which case the curtailed thread would have to be longer than where the loop was to be made by the curtailed thread by itself.
^ⁱnote:For there is here the minimum length for curtailed threads, and moreover they are thicker and therefore more noticeable.
^ʲnote:I.e., whose view is put forward by the Sages in the Baraitha supra p. 233.
^ᵏnote:For the omission of one colour does not prevent the use of the other. This Tanna clearly disagrees with Rabbi.
^ˡnote:From the statement of R. Hiyya's sons.
^ᵐnote:Each fringe is in part wound around with thread (khsd), and in part hangs loose (;dg). After the threads have been inserted in the hole at the corner of the garment and folded over double, one thread is taken and wound around the others, and after several windings a knot is made and then the windings begin over again. Each series of windings is called a joint (thkuj), and at the end of each joint a knot (rae) is made to prevent the windings from becoming undone.
^ⁿnote:I.e., the uppermost and first knot when holding up the garment by the fringe; or the last or nethermost knot when the garment is worn.
^ᵒnote:Since a thread has snapped close to the last knot it would inevitably follow that this knot would become undone, and if there were no other knots at each joint, the entire fringe would become undone, in which case it certainly cannot be valid.