Ketubot

But would R. Akiba  maintain that seizure  is never legally valid?  Raba replied in the name of R. Nahman: Seizure  is valid where it took place during the lifetime [of the deceased]. Now according to R. Tarfon,  where [must the produce] be kept?  — Both Rab and Samuel replied: It must be heaped up and lie in a public domain, but [if it was kept] in an alley  no [seizure is valid]. Both R. Johanan and Resh Lakish, however, said: Even [if the produce lay] in an alley [seizure is valid]. Certain judges once gave their decision in agreement with R. Tarfon, and Resh Lakish  reversed their verdict. Said R. Johanan to him, 'You have acted as [if R. Akiba's ruling were a law] of the Torah'!  May it be assumed that they  differ on this principle; One Master upholds the view that if [in giving a decision] a law cited in a Mishnah had been overlooked the decision must be reversed  and the other Master upholds the view that if a law cited in a Mishnah had been overlooked the decision need not be reversed?  — No; all agree that if [in giving a decision] a law cited in a Mishnah had been overlooked the decision must be reversed, but this is the point at issue between them:  One Master holds that the halachah is in agreement with the opinion of R. Akiba [only when he differs] from a colleague of his but not from his master,  while the other Master holds that the halachah [is in agreement with him] even [if he differs] from his master. If you prefer  I might say; All agree that the halachah agrees with R. Akiba [only when he differs] from a colleague of his but not from his master. Here, however. the point at issue is this: One Master holds R. Tarfon to have been his  master and the other Master holds him to have been his colleague. Alternatively it might be said: All agree that he  was his  colleague; but the point at issue between them  is this: One Master maintains that the statement  was that 'The halachah [agrees with R. Akiba]'  and the other Master maintains that the statement  was that 'one should be inclined [in favour of a ruling of R. Akiba]'. R. Johanan's relatives seized in an alley a cow that belonged to orphans. When they appeared before R. Johanan, he said to them, 'Your seizure is quite lawful'. R. Simeon b. Lakish, however, before whom they subsequently appeared, said to them. 'Go and return it'.  'What can I do', said R. Johanan to whom they came again, 'when one of equal authority  differs from me?' [A creditor] once seized an ox from the herdsman of [his debtor's] orphans. The creditor said, 'I seized it during the lifetime [of the debtor]'  and the herdsman said, 'He seized it after the debtor's death'.  They appeared before R. Nahman who asked the herdsman, 'Have you witnesses that [the creditor] has seized it?' — 'No', the other replied. [R. Nahman thereupon] said to him: Since he could have said, 'It came into my possession through purchase'  he is also entitled to say. 'I seized it during the lifetime [of the debtor]'. But did not Resh Lakish state; The law of presumptive possession is inapplicable to living creatures?  — The case of an ox that was entrusted to a herdsman is different [from that of other living creatures]. The people of the Nasi's  household once seized in an alley a bondwoman belonging to orphans. At a session held by R. Abbahu, R. Hanina b. Papi and R. Isaac Nappaha in whose presence sat also R. Abba they  were told, 'Your seizure is quite lawful'. 'Is it', said R. Abba to them,  'because these people are of the Nasi's household that you are favouring them? Surely, when certain judges once gave a decision in agreement with R. Tarfon Resh Lakish reversed their decision'. Yemar b. Hashu had a money claim against a certain person who died and left a boat. 'Go', he said to his agent, 'and seize it'. [The latter] went and seized it, but R. Papa and R. Huna the son of R. Joshua met him and told him, 'You are seizing [the ship] on behalf of a creditor and thereby you are causing loss to others,  and R. Johanan ruled: He who seizes [a debtor's property] on behalf of a creditor and thereby causes loss to others