Ketubot

for if it were [not] so, there would be a difficulty between one law and another law, for it is established for us [that] in civil matters the law is according to R. Nahman, whereas in this [case]  R. Judah [said] that Samuel said [that] the halachah is according to Rabban Gamaliel,  Is it not then to be concluded from this [that it is] as we have answered?  Conclude [so] from this. MISHNAH. [IF] SHE  SAYS, 'I WAS INJURED BY A PIECE OF WOOD', AND HE SAYS, 'NO, THOU HAST HAD INTERCOURSE WITH A MAN  — RABBAN GAMALIEL AND R. ELIEZER SAY: SHE IS BELIEVED, AND R. JOSHUA SAYS: WE DO NOT LIVE FROM HER MONTH,  BUT SHE IS IN THE PRESUMPTION OF HAVING HAD INTERCOURSE WITH A MAN,  UNTIL SHE BRINGS PROOF FOR HER STATEMENT. GEMARA. With regard to what are their claims?  — R. Johanan Says: With regard to two hundred  [zuz] and a maneh.  R. Eleazar says: with regard to a maneh and nothing.  R. Johanan says: With regard to two hundred [zuz] and a maneh, [because] he  shares the opinion of R. Meir who says [that] whether he knew of her or did not know of her  [she gets as her kethubah] two hundred [zuz]. And R. Eleazar says: With regard to a maneh or nothing, [because] he shares the view of the Rabbis who say [that] whether he knew of her or did not know of her,  [she gets as her kethubah] a maneh. It is quite right that R. Eleazar does not say as R. Johanan [says]. because he establishes it  according to the Rabbis.  But why does not R. Johanan say as R. Eleazar [says]? — He holds [that when] he  married her in the presumption of [her being] a virgin and she is found to have had intercourse, she has a kethubah of a maneh.  [According to this view] here  he would say. 'a maneh,'  and she would say. 'a maneh,'  [and] what difference would there be between his claim and her claim?  [Now] it is quite right according to R. Eleazar  that we have stated  two cases,  one  it to exclude the opinion of Rami b. Hama,  and one  to exclude the opinion of R. Hiyya b. Abin in the name of R. Shesheth.  But according to R. Johanan why are two cases necessary?  — One to show you the strength  of Rabban Gamaliel, and one to show you the strength of R. Joshua. The first case to show you the strength of R. Joshua, that, although one could say [there] miggo,  she is not believed. The second case to show you the strength of Rabban Gamaliel, that, although one cannot say [there]  Miggo, she is believed. MISHNAH. [IF] THEY  SAW HER  TALKING WITH SOMEONE,  AND THEY SAID TO HER, 'WHAT SORT OF A MAN IS HE?  [AND SHE ANSWERED, 'HE IS] THE MAN SO-AND-SO AND HE IS A PRIEST — RABBAN GAMALIEL AND R. ELIEZER SAY: SHE IS BELIEVED,  AND R. JOSHUA SAYS: WE DO NOT LIVE FROM HER MOUTH,  BUT SHE IS IN THE PRESUMPTION OF HAVING HAD INTERCOURSE WITH A NATHIN  OR A MAMZER,41-42 — UNTIL SHE BRINGS PROOF FOR HER STATEMENT. [IF] SHE  WAS PREGNANT AND THEY  SAID UNTO HER, 'WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THIS FOETUS.'  [AND SHE ANSWERED, 'IT IS] FROM THE MAN SO-AND-SO AND HE IS A PRIEST — RABBAN GAMALIEL AND R. ELIEZER SAY: SHE IS BELIEVED,  AND R. JOSHUA SAYS: WE DO NOT LIVE FROM HER MOUTH,  BUT SHE IS IN THE PRESUMPTION OF BEING PREGNANT FROM A NATHIN OR A MAMZER,  UNTIL SHE BRINGS EVIDENCE FOR HER STATEMENT. GEMARA. What is the meaning of 'TALKING'? Ze'iri said: She was hidden.  R. Assi said: She had intercourse.  It is quite right according to Ze'iri that it Says  'TALKING',  But according to R. Assi why [does it say] 'TALKING?' — [It is] a more appropriate  expression, as it is written:  'She eateth,  and wipeth her mouth,  and saith, 'I have done no wickedness.'  It is quite right according to Ze'iri that he teaches [in the Mishnah] two [cases]: 'TALKING' and 'PREGNANT,  But according to R. Assi, why [does the Mishnah teach] two [cases]? — One case  to declare her fit  and one case  to declare her daughter  fit.  That is quite right according to him who says [that] he who declares her fit declares [also] her daughter fit.  But according to him who says [that] he who declares her fit declares her daughter unfit,  what is there to say? — R. Assi holds the view of him  who says [that] he who declares her fit declares [also] her daughter fit. R. Pappa said to Abaye: According to Ze'iri who said: What Is TALKING?' She was hidden, and R. Joshua said [that] she is not believed — did not Rab say: We punish with lashes for the privacy  but we do not prohibit  on account of the privacy? Is it to say that it is not according to R. Joshua?  — You may even say [that it is according to] R. Joshua. [for] they set a higher standard in matters of priestly descent. An objection was raised: [If] they  saw her go in  with someone  Into a secret [place]