Parallel
יומא 22
Soncino English Talmud · Berean Standard Bible
MISHNAH. ORIGINALLY WHOSOEVER DESIRED TO REMOVE [THE ASHES FROM] THE ALTAR DID SO. IF THEY WERE MANY, THEY WOULD RUN AND MOUNT THE RAMP [OF THE ALTAR] AND HE THAT CAME FIRST WITHIN FOUR CUBITS OBTAINED THE PRIVILEGE. IF TWO WERE EVEN, THE OFFICER WOULD SAY TO THEM [ALL:] RAISE THE FINGER! AND HOW MANY DID THEY PUT FORTH? ONE OR TWO BUT ONE DID NOT PUT FORTH THE THUMB IN THE TEMPLE. IT ONCE HAPPENED THAT TWO WERE EVEN AS THEY RAN TO MOUNT THE RAMP. ONE OF THEM PUSHED HIS FELLOW WHO FELL AND BROKE HIS LEG. WHEN THE COURT SAW THAT THEY INCURRED DANGER, THEY ORDAINED THAT THE ALTAR BE CLEARED ONLY BY COUNT. THERE WERE FOUR COUNTS. THIS IS THE FIRST COUNT. GEMARA. But why did our Rabbis not establish the count for this service from the beginning? They thought, Since it was a night service, it would not be considered so precious and they [many priests] would not come. But when they saw that [many] were coming and incurred danger, they arranged the count. But the burning on the altar of the limbs and fat-pieces is also a night service, and yet our Rabbis arranged a count for it? — It is rather the end of the service of the day. But the other too is the beginning of the service of the day, for R. Johanan said: If he sanctified his hands [by washing] for clearing the ashes off the altar he need not in the morning sanctify them again, because he has sanctified them already from the beginning of the service? — Say: Because he has from the beginning sanctified his hands for the service. Some say: First they [the Rabbis] believed that since [many of them] are overcome by sleep, they would not come [to this night service], but when they saw they were coming and incurring danger, our Rabbis arranged for the count. But with the burning of the limbs and fat-pieces, [taking also place at a time when] they are also overcome by sleep and yet our Rabbis arranged for a count? There is a difference between going to sleep and rising from sleep. But was the arrangement due to that consideration, was it not rather due to another consideration, for it has been taught: He who obtained the task of clearing the altar of the ashes thereby also obtained the ordering of the pile of wood on the altar and of the two pieces of wood? — R. Ashi said: There were two arrangements. First they [the Rabbis] opined that they would not come [at night], but when they saw that the priests did come and incurred danger, they arranged for the count. When the count had been arranged, they did not come, for they said: ‘Who can tell whether the lot will fall on me’ [therefore] they [the Rabbis] arranged that he who had obtained the task of clearing the ashes off the altar, should thereby also obtain the task of arranging the piles of wood and the two pieces of wood, in order that they might come and submit to the count. IF THEY WERE MANY etc.: R. Papa said: It is obvious to me [that within four cubits does] not [refer to] the four cubits on the floor, because we learnt: THEY WOULD RUN AND MOUNT THE RAMP; neither does it mean the first [four cubits], because we learnt: THEY WOULD RUN AND MOUNT THE RAMP, and after that: HE THAT CAME FIRST WITHIN FOUR CUBITS; neither does it mean [four cubits] in the middle because this is not clearly indicated; hence it is self-evident that it means [four cubits] off the altar. But R. Papa asked: Do these four cubits, of which we have spoken, include the one cubit of the [projecting] base and the one cubit of the gallery,
—
or does it mean exclusive of the one cubit base and one cubit gallery? — [The question] stands. IF TWO WERE EVEN, THE OFFICER WOULD SAY TO THEM: RAISE THE FINGER, etc. A Tanna taught: Put forth your fingers for the count. But let him count them? — That supports the statement of R. Isaac, for R. Isaac said: It is forbidden to count Israel even for [the purpose of fulfilling] a commandment, as it is written: And he numbered them be-bezek [with pebbles]. R. Ashi demurred to this: Whence do you know that the word ‘bezek’ is here used in the sense of being broken [i.e., pebbles], perhaps it is the name of a place, as it is written: And they found Adoni-Bezek in Bezek? — Rather it is from here: And Saul summoned the people and numbered them with telaim [sheep]. R. Eleazar said: Whosoever counts Israel, transgresses a [biblical] prohibition, as it is said: Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured. R. Nahman b. Isaac said: He would transgress two prohibitions, for it is written: ‘Which cannot be measured nor numbered’. R. Samuel b. Nahmani said: R. Jonathan raised an objection: It is written: ‘Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea,’ and it is also written: ‘Which cannot be numbered?’ This is no contradiction: Here it speaks of the time when Israel fulfils the will of the Lord, there of the time when they do not fulfil His will. Rabbi, on behalf of Abba Jose son of Dosthai, said: This is no contradiction: Here it speaks of [counting done] by human beings, there of counting by Heaven. R. Nehilai b. Idi said in the name of Samuel: As soon as a man is appointed administrator of a community, he becomes rich — First it was written: ‘And he counted them by means of pebbles,’ and, in the end, ‘And he counted them by means of sheep’. But perhaps these sheep were of their own? — Then what is remarkable about it? And he strove in the valley. R. Mani said: Because of what happens ‘in the valley’: When the Holy One, blessed be He, said to Saul: Now go and smite Amalek, he said: If on account of one person the Torah said: Perform the ceremony of the heifer whose neck is to be broken, how much more [ought consideration to be given] to all these persons! And if human beings sinned, what has the cattle committed; and if the adults have sinned, what have the little ones done? A divine voice came forth and said: Be not righteous overmuch. And when Saul said to Doeg: Turn thou and fall upon the priests, a heavenly voice came forth to say: Be not overmuch wicked. R. Huna said: How little does he whom the Lord supports need to grieve or trouble himself! Saul sinned once and it brought [calamity] upon him, David sinned twice and it did not bring evil upon him — What was the one sin of Saul? The affair with Agag. But there was also the matter with Nob, the city of the priests? — [Still] it was because of what happened with Agag that Scripture says: It repenteth Me that I have set up Saul to be king. What were the two sins of David? — The sin against Uriah and that [of counting the people to which] he was enticed. But there was also the matter of Bathsheba? — For that he was punished, as it is written, And he shall restore the lamb fourfold: the child, Amnon, Tamar and Absalom. But for the other sin he was also punished as it is written: So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed? — There his own body was not punished — But in the former case, too, his own body was not punished either? Not indeed? He was punished on his own body, for Rab Judah said in the name of Rab: For six months David was smitten with leprosy, the Sanhedrin removed from him, and the Shechinah departed from him, as it is written: Let those that fear Thee return unto me, and they that know Thy testimonies, and it is also written: Restore unto me the joy of Thy salvation. But Rab said that David also listened to evil talk? — We hold like Samuel [who says] that David did not do so. And even according to Rab, who says that David listened to calumny, was he not punished for it? For Rab Judah said in the name of Rab. At the time when David said to Mephibosheth: I say: Thou and Ziba divide the land, a heavenly voice came forth to say to him: Rehoboam and Jeroboam will divide the Kingdom. Saul was a year old when he began to reign. R. Huna said: Like an infant of one year, who had not tasted the taste of sin. R. Nahman b. Isaac demurred to this: Say perhaps: Like an infant of one year old that is filthy with mud and excrement? R. Nahman thereupon was shown a frightening vision in his dream, whereupon he said: I beg your pardon, bones of Saul, son of Kish. But he saw again a frightening vision in his dream, whereupon he said: I beg your pardon, bones of Saul, son of Kish, King in Israel. Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: Why did the kingdom of Saul not endure? Because no reproach rested on him, for R. Johanan had said in the name of R. Simeon b. Jehozadak: One should not appoint any one administrator of a community, unless he carries a basket of reptiles on his back, so that if he became arrogant, one could tell him: Turn around! Rab Judah said in the name of Rab: Why was Saul punished? Because he forewent the honour due to himself, as it is said: But certain base fellows said: ‘How shall this man save us?’ And they despised him and brought him no present. But he was as one that held his peace, and it is written [immediately following that]: Then Nahash the Ammonite came up and encamped against Jabesh-gilead. R. Johanan further said in the name of R. Simeon b. Jehozadak: Any scholar,
—