Sukkah — Daf 20a

והכי קאמר מחצלת הקנים גדולה עשאה לשכיבה מקבלת טומאה ואין מסככין בה טעמא דעשאה לשכיבה הא סתמא נעשה כמי שעשאה לסיכוך מסככין בה (קטנה עשאה לסיכוך מסככין בה טעמא דעשאה לסיכוך הא סתמא נעשה כמי שעשאה לשכיבה ואין מסככין בה) ואתא ר' אליעזר למימר אחת קטנה ואחת גדולה סתמא כשרה לסיכוך

אמר ליה אביי אי הכי ר' אליעזר אומר אחת קטנה ואחת גדולה אחת גדולה ואחת קטנה מיבעי ליה

ועוד כי פליגי בגדולה הוא דפליגי ורבי אליעזר לחומרא דתניא מחצלת הקנים בגדולה מסככין בה ר' אליעזר אומר אם אינה מקבלת טומאה מסככין בה

אלא אמר רב פפא בקטנה כולי עלמא לא פליגי דסתמא לשכיבה כי פליגי בגדולה ת"ק סבר סתם גדולה לסיכוך ורבי אליעזר סבר סתם גדולה נמי לשכיבה

ומאי עשאה לשכיבה דקאמר הכי קאמר סתם עשייתה נמי לשכיבה עד דעביד לסיכוך

ת"ר מחצלת של שיפה ושל גמי גדולה מסככין בה קטנה אין מסככין בה של קנים ושל חילת גדולה מסככין בה ארוגה אין מסככין בה

רבי ישמעאל בר' יוסי אומר משום אביו אחת זו ואחת זו מסככין בה וכן היה רבי דוסא אומר כדבריו

תנן התם כל החוצלות מטמאין טמא מת דברי ר' דוסא וחכמים אומרים מדרס

מדרס אין טמא מת לא והא אנן תנן כל המטמא מדרס מטמא טמא מת אימא אף מדרס

מאי חוצלות אמר רב אבדימי בר המדורי מרזובלי מאי מרזובלי אמר ר' אבא מזבלי ר' שמעון בן לקיש אומר מחצלות ממש

ואזדא ריש לקיש לטעמיה דאמר ריש לקיש הריני כפרת רבי חייא ובניו שבתחלה כשנשתכחה תורה מישראל עלה עזרא מבבל ויסדה חזרה ונשתכחה עלה הלל הבבלי ויסדה חזרה ונשתכחה עלו רבי חייא ובניו ויסדוה וכן אמר רבי חייא ובניו לא נחלקו רבי דוסא וחכמים על מחצלות של אושא

and it is this that was meant: If a large mat of reeds is made specifically for reclining upon, it is susceptible to [ritual] uncleanliness and is invalid as a Sukkah-covering. The reason is that it was made specifically for reclining upon, but ordinarily it is regarded as though it was made for a covering, and is valid as a Sukkah-covering. A small [mat], if made for a covering, is valid as a Sukkah-covering. The reason is that it was made specifically for covering, but ordinarily it is regarded as though made for reclining upon, and is invalid for a Sukkah-covering.1 [This is the view of the first Tanna] and R. Eliezer comes to say that whether it is small, or large, if made without specific purpose, it is valid as a Sukkah-covering. Abaye said to him,2 If so,3 [instead of] R. ELIEZER SAYS, WHETHER IT IS SMALL OR LARGE, it ought to read, Whether it is large or small?4 Furthermore, is it not in fact with regard to a large mat that they are in dispute, and it is R. Eliezer who takes the stricter view, for it was taught: A large mat of reeds is valid for a Sukkah-covering. R. Eliezer says, If it is not susceptible to [ritual] uncleanliness,5 it is valid for a Sukkah-covering?6 Rather said R. Papa, ‘With regard to a small [mat], all acquiesce that ordinarily it is intended for reclining upon. In what do they dispute? In the case of a large one. The first Tanna is of the opinion that ordinarily a large one is intended for a covering, while R. Eliezer is of the opinion that ordinarily a large one is intended for reclining upon also’. And what is meant7 by ‘IF IT WAS MADE FOR RECLINING UPON?8 It is this that was meant: Ordinarily also its manufacture is assumed to be for the purpose of reclining upon unless one made it specifically for a covering.9 Our Rabbis taught, A mat of wicker or of straw, if large,10 is valid for a Sukkah-covering,if small11 it is invalid for a Sukkah-covering.12 One of reeds or of helath,13 if plaited,14 is valid for a Sukkah-covering, if woven,15 it is invalid. R. Ishmael son of R. Jose said in the name of his father, Both the one and the other, are valid for a Sukkah-covering; and R. Dosa also ruled according to his view. We have learnt elsewhere: All reed mats are susceptible to corpse uncleanliness.16 These are the words of R. Dosa. The Sages, however, say, They are susceptible to the uncleanliness of midras.17 [Can it mean] to the uncleanliness of midras but not to that of a corpse seeing that we have learnt: Whatever is susceptible to [primary] uncleanliness of midras is also susceptible to [primary] uncleanliness from a corpse?18 — Say rather also to the uncleanliness of midras.19 What is meant by hozloth?20 — R. Abdimi b. Hamduri said marzuble. What is marzuble? — R. Abba said, Bags filled with foliage.21 R. Simeon b. Lakish said, Real matting. And Resh Lakish is consistent [in this view], since Resh Lakish said, May I be an expiation for R. Hiyya and his sons.22 For in ancient times when the Torah was forgotten from Israel, Ezra came up from Babylon and established it. [Some of] it was again forgotten and Hillel the Babylonian23 came up and established it. Yet again was [some of] it forgotten, and R. Hiyya and his sons came up24 and established it. And thus said R. Hiyya and his sons: R. Dosa and the Sages did not dispute about reed-mats of Usha, 25 order should be: Whether large, as you say, or small. according to the first Tanna, while according to R. Eliezer it is regarded as made for lying upon. explicitly stated) while the latter clause refers to a small mat, the meaning being that if the mat was a small one, that was made specifically for a covering it may be used as a Sukkah-covering while ordinarily it is assumed to be intended for lying upon. To this R. Eliezer objected: A large mat also is subject to the same law as a small one viz., that if made for no specific purpose it is deemed to have been made for lying upon, is susceptible to ritual uncleanness and may not be used as a Sukkah-covering, but if it was expressly made to serve as a covering it may be used as a Sukkah-covering and is not susceptible to uncleanness. that they, not being intended for lying upon, contract primary uncleanness only through contact with a corpse and not (v. infra) through midras. susceptible to primary uncleanness even through midras. exclusively for mattresses, those of Tiberias were hard and not used for this purpose.