Shevuot — Daf 32b

ומחלוקת בעדי סוטה בעדי סתירה מר סבר דבר הגורם לממון כממון דמי וחייב ומר סבר לאו כממון דמי ופטור

הכל מודים בשכנגדו חשוד על השבועה הכל מודים בעד אחד דר' אבא

הכל מודים בשכנגדו חשוד על השבועה דחשיד מאן אילימא דחשיד לוה דאמר ליה מלוה אי אתית אסהדת לי הוה משתבענא ושקילנא ולימא ליה מי יימר דמשתבעת

אלא כגון ששניהן חשודין דאמר מר חזרה שבועה למחויב לה ומתוך שאינו יכול לישבע משלם

הכל מודים בעד אחד דר' אבא דההוא גברא דחטף נסכא מחבריה אתא לקמיה דר' אמי הוה יתיב ר' אבא קמיה אזל אייתי חד סהדא דמיחטף חטפה מיניה אמר ליה אין חטפי ודידי חטפי

א"ר אמי היכי לדייני דייני להאי דינא לישלם ליכא תרי סהדי ליפטריה הא איכא חד סהדא דמחטף חטף לישתבע כיון דאמר אין חטפי ודידי חטפי הוה ליה כגזלן א"ל ר' אבא הוה ליה מחויב שבועה ואינו יכול לישבע וכל המחויב שבועה ואינו יכול לישבע משלם

אמר רב פפא הכל מודים בעד מיתה שהוא חייב והכל מודים בעד מיתה שהוא פטור

הכל מודים בעד מיתה שהוא פטור דאמר לה לדידה ולא אמר להו לבית דין דתנן האשה שאמרה מת בעלי תנשא מת בעלי תתיבם

הכל מודים בעד מיתה שהוא חייב דלא אמר לדידה ולא אמר להו לבית דין

שמע מינה משביע עדי קרקע חייב דלמא דתפישא מטלטלי:

כפר אחד והודה אחד כו': השתא בזה אחר זה דתרוייהו קא כפרי אמרת הראשון חייב והשני פטור כפר אחד והודה אחד מיבעיא

לא צריכא כגון שכפרו שניהן וחזר אחד מהן והודה בתוך כדי דיבור והא קא משמע לן דתוך כדי דיבור כדיבור דמי

בשלמא לרב חסדא דמוקי לה לההוא כרבי יוסי הגלילי רישא אפשר לצמצם וסיפא איצטריך לאשמועינן דתוך כדי דיבור כדיבור דמי אלא לרבי יוחנן רישא תוך כדי דיבור סיפא תוך כדי דיבור תרתי למה לי

מהו דתימא ה"מ כפירה וכפירה אבל כפירה והודאה אימא לא קמ"ל:

היו שתי כיתי עדים כפרה הראשונה ואח"כ כפרה השניה: בשלמא שניה תתחייב דכפרה לה ראשונה אלא ראשונה אמאי

‘And they disagree in [the case of] the witnesses of the sotah’ — the witnesses of the secret meeting; one holds that which causes [extraction of] money is counted as [if it had actually extracted] money, and they are liable; and the other holds it is not counted as [if it had actually extracted] money, and they are exempt.1 ‘All agree [in the case of the witness] where his adversary is suspected of swearing falsely’.2 ‘All agree in [the case of] one witness’ [in such circumstances as came] before R. Abba.3 ‘All agree [in the case of the witness] where his adversary is suspected of swearing falsely.’ Who is suspected? Shall we say the debtor is suspected; and the creditor could say [to the witness]. ‘If you would have come to bear testimony for me, I would have sworn, and taken [the debt]’? Let the witness say to him, ‘Who says that you would have sworn?’4 — Well then, for example, if they are both suspect, in which case it has been said, the oath returns to the one who is bound to take it,5 and because he cannot swear,6 he pays.7 ‘All agree in [the case of] one witness’ [in such circumstances as came] before R. Abba; for there was a man who snatched a bar of silver from his neighbour; they came before R. Ammi, and R. Abba was sitting before him. He8 went and brought one witness that he had snatched it from him. The other said, ‘Yes, I snatched it, but it is mine that I snatched’. Said R. Ammi: How shall judges settle this dispute? Shall he pay? There are not two witnesses. Shall he be exempt? There is one witness that he snatched it. Shall he swear? Since he said, ‘Yes, I snatched it, but it is mine that [snatched’, he is like a robber.9 R. Abba said to him: He is bound to take an oath,10 and he cannot swear; and anyone who is bound to take an oath, and cannot swear, pays.11 R. Papa said: All agree in [the case of] a witness of death12 that he is liable; and all agree in [the case of] a witness of death that he is exempt. ‘All agree in [the case of] a witness of death that he is exempt’, — if he told it to her,13 and did not tell it to the Beth Din; for we learnt: A woman who said, ‘My husband died’, may remarry; ‘my husband died’, marries her brother-in-law.14 ‘All agree in [the case of] a witness of death that he is liable,’ — if he told it neither to her nor to the Beth Din.15 Can we deduce from this that if one adjures witnesses in connection with land [and they deny knowledge of testimony], they are liable?16 — No! Perhaps she had seized movables.17 IF ONE DENIED, AND THE OTHER ADMITTED, etc. Now, if in the case of one after another where both deny, you say the first is liable,18 and the second exempt, in the case where one denies and the other admits, is there any question?19 — It is not necessary [for the Mishnah to tell us this except in the case] where both denied, and then one of them turned and admitted within the interval of the time of an utterance; and this he teaches us, that [two statements following each other] within the interval of the time of an utterance are considered one utterance.20 Granted, according to R. Hisda who explains that [clause]21 as being in accordance with the view of R. Jose the Galilean;22 the first clause [establishes that] it is possible to ascertain simultaneity, and the second clause23 is necessary in order to teach us that [two statements following each other] within the interval of the time of an utterance are considered one utterance; but, according to R. Johanan, the first clause [teaches us the law with regard to statements uttered] within the interval of the time of an utterance, and the second clause [teaches us the law with regard to statements uttered] within the interval of the time of an utterance! Why do we need both? — You might have thought that only in the case of denial and denial24 [do we say that two statements within a brief interval are considered one],25 but in the case of denial and admission26 we do not say this, therefore he teaches us [that we do]. IF THERE WERE TWO SETS OF WITNESSES, AND THE FIRST DENIED, AND THEN THE SECOND DENIED, [THEY ARE BOTH LIABLE]. Granted, the second should be liable, because the first denied;27 but the first — why [should they be liable]? swear, denying knowledge of testimony, R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon (who regards the causing of pecuniary loss as the direct infliction of a money loss, as is proved by his view imposing liability on one witness who was adjured) will hold they are liable, for by withholding their testimony they cause a pecuniary loss to the husband (for, had they given testimony, the wife might have confessed rather than undergo the ordeal of the ‘bitter waters’, and the husband would have been exempt from paying the kethubah); but the Sages hold they are not liable, for their testimony would not have directly freed the husband from paying the kethubah. the creditor takes an oath that the debt is due, and is paid (infra 44b). If the witness is adjured by the creditor, and denies knowledge of testimony, he is thereby depriving the creditor of his debt, and therefore all agree that in such a case he is liable. [The order of the text in cur. edd. is somewhat disarranged. MS.M. preserves a better order and reading which avoid the needless repetitions in our text, v. D.S.]. merely a possible cause of monetary loss (and does not actually deprive the creditor of his money); the Sages (who disagree with R. Eleazar b. R. Simeon) would therefore not hold him liable. Why, then, say that all agree in this case? all agree that he is liable. ever be liable, even when there were two witnesses that he robbed, for he could always say, ‘I admit I took it, but it is my own property’; v. Tosaf. a.l. And since he is like a robber, he cannot take an oath. is always presumed to belong to the one in whose possession it has been (unless there is definite proof to the contrary). He must therefore take an oath to deny the statement of the witness. This he cannot do, for he admits that he snatched it (agreeing with the witness), and since he cannot swear, he must return it; v. B.B. (Sonc. ed.) p. 156 and notes. all agree that he must bring an offering for his false oath in such circumstances. denied the knowledge. He is not liable, because she can go to the Beth Din herself, and say her husband is dead, and requires no witness. He has therefore not occasioned any monetary loss to her by withholding his evidence, for she is believed, and can obtain her kethubah from the heirs. of the kethubah, since he did not tell even her that her husband had died, and she has therefore no information at all on the matter. is liable, according to R. Papa, if he is adjured and withholds information. But there is already a dispute between Tannaim on this point (v. infra 37b). Let R. Papa then merely say he agrees with one of the Tannaim! given evidence, she would have retained it in settlement of her kethubah. R. Papa's ruling may refer to such a case, and not to a case where the kethubah has to be collected from immovable property. because when he denies, the other had not yet denied, he is liable. testimony, deprives the claimant of his money. Why, then, does the Mishnah mention this clause? It is superfluous! clause), but that the one who admits is exempt, although he first denied, his admission within the brief interval being accepted, and exempting him. a loss.