Menachot — Daf 52b

לרבנן הוכפלה לבונתו או לא מי אמרינן מתוך שהוכפלה סלתו הוכפלה לבונתו או דילמא מאי דגלי גלי מאי דלא גלי לא גלי

ושמן בין לאבא יוסי בן דוסתאי ובין לרבנן מהו

אמר רבא ת"ש ה' קמצין הן ואם איתא זימנין דמשכחת לה ז'

דאי לא קתני יתיב רב פפא וקאמר לה להא שמעתא אמר ליה רב יוסף בר שמעיה לרב פפא והא מעלה קומץ בחוץ דאי הוה וקתני

מאי הוי עלה אמר ר"נ בר יצחק ת"ש דתניא כ"ג שמת ולא מינו אחר תחתיו שלימה שחרית ושלימה בין הערבים ומפריש לה ב' קמצין קומץ שחרית וקומץ בין הערבים ומפריש לה שלשת לוגין לוג ומחצה שחרית לוג ומחצה בין הערבים

מני אילימא רבנן מאי שנא לבונתה דהוכפלה ומאי שנא שמנה דלא הוכפלה

אלא אבא יוסי בן דוסתאי היא דאמר חביתי כ"ג בעלמא שני קמצין בעיא ולבונה לא הוכפלה ושמן לא הוכפל

ומדשמן לאבא יוסי בן דוסתאי לא הוכפלה לבונתה ושמנה לרבנן נמי לא הוכפלו

א"ר יוחנן הלכה כאבא יוסי בן דוסתאי ומי א"ר יוחנן הכי והא א"ר יוחנן הלכה כסתם משנה ותנן חמשה קמצין הן

אמוראי נינהו ואליבא דרבי יוחנן:

הדרן עלך התכלת

מתני׳ כל המנחות באות מצה חוץ מחמץ שבתודה ושתי הלחם שהן באות חמץ

ר"מ אומר השאור בודה להן מתוכן ומחמצן

ר' יהודה אומר אף היא אינה מן המובחר אלא מביא את השאור ונותנו לתוך המדה וממלא את המדה אמרו לו אף היא היתה חסרה או יתרה:

גמ׳ בעא מיניה רבי פרידא מרבי אמי מנין לכל המנחות שהן באות מצה מנלן דכתיב בה כתיב בה דלא כתיב בה כתיב בה

must the quantity of frankincense, according to the view of the Rabbis,1 be doubled or not? Should we say that since the quantity of flour has been doubled2 the quantity of frankincense must also be doubled, or perhaps this is so only where it has been expressly stated3 and not where it has not been expressly stated? And this question is also to be asked with regard to the quantity of oil,4 both according to the view of the Rabbis and of Abba Jose b. Dosethai. Come and hear: for we have learnt: The handful is specified in five cases.5 Now if that were so,6 there would sometimes be seven!7 — The Tanna is not concerned with the exception.8 R. Papa was sitting and reciting the above when R. Joseph b. Shemaiah said to him, ‘Is not the case of a man offering the handful outside the Sanctuary an exceptional case’,9 and yet he reckoned it? What is the decision then? — R. Nahman b. Isaac said, Come and hear: For it has been taught: If the High Priest died and they did not appoint another in his stead a whole tenth must be offered in the morning and a whole tenth in the evening. Two handfuls [of frankincense] must be set aside, one to be offered in the morning and one in the evening; and three logs of oil must be set aside, one log and a half to be offered in the morning and one log and a half in the evening. Now who is the author of this Baraitha? If you say it is the Rabbis, then it will be asked, Why is it that the quantity of frankincense is doubled and the quantity of oil is not? It must therefore be Abba Jose b. Dosethai who maintains that at all times the High Priest's meal-offering requires two handfuls of frankincense, so that neither the quantity of frankincense nor the quantity of oil has been doubled. And since according to Abba Jose b. Dosethai the quantity of oil is not doubled,10 likewise according to the Rabbis the quantities of frankincense and of oil are not doubled.11 R. Johanan said, The halachah follows Abba Jose b. Dosethai.12 But could R. Johanan have said so? Did not R. Johanan say that the halachah always follows the anonymous opinion of a Mishnah, and we have learnt: ‘The handful is specified in five cases’?13 — Different Amoraim report R. Johanan's opinion differently.14 MISHNAH. ALL MEAL-OFFERINGS MUST BE OFFERED UNLEAVENED, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE LEAVENED CAKES OF THE THANK-OFFERING15 AND THE TWO LOAVES [OF PENTECOST].16 WHICH ARE OFFERED LEAVENED. R. MEIR SAYS, THE LEAVEN MUST BE TAKEN FROM [THE MEAL-OFFERINGS] THEMSELVES AND WITH THIS THEY ARE LEAVENED.17 R. JUDAH SAYS, THAT IS NOT THE BEST WAY,18 BUT [FIRST OF ALL] LEAVEN MUST BE BROUGHT AND PUT INTO THE MEASURING VESSEL AND THEN THE MEASURING VESSEL IS FILLED UP [WITH FLOUR]. BUT THEY SAID TO HIM, EVEN SO [IT IS NOT SATISFACTORY]; FOR IT WOULD BE SOMETIMES TOO LITTLE AND SOMETIMES TOO MUCH.19 GEMARA. R. Perida enquired of R. Ammi, Whence is it derived that all meal-offerings must be offered unleavened? — ‘Whence?’ you ask, [R. Ammi replied] but surely where this20 is expressly stated21 it is expressly stated, and where it is not expressly stated there is the general statement, frankincense must be brought morning and evening. and offered, half (i.e., a half-tenth of flour and one log and a half of oil) in the morning and half in the evening. During an interregnum, however, since the quantity of flour is doubled it might well be that the oil must also be doubled. list since it was offered a half-handful at a time. the two handfuls of frankincense offered with the Shewbread which are reckoned as two in the list. regularly. the evening. High Priest's meal-offering. statement, namely, that the halachah follows Abba Jose, others that he made only the latter statement, that the halachah follows the anonymous Mishnah. Lev. VII, 12,13. becomes leavened, and this serves as yeast for leavening the rest of the meal-offering. flour in this meal-offering, and if, on the other hand, the yeast was of a thin consistency, taking up much space in the vessel, there would be less than the usual quantity of flour, and in either case the meal-offering would be invalid.