Menachot — Daf 48a

והשאר נאכלות בפדיון אמרוה רבנן קמיה דרב חסדא הא דלא כרבי

דאי רבי כיון דאמר שחיטה מקדשא דפריק להו היכא

אי דפריק להו מאבראי כיון דכתיב לפני ה' איפסיל להו ביוצא אי גוואי הא מעייל חולין לעזרה

אמר להו רב חסדא לעולם כרבי ופריק להו גוואי וחולין ממילא קא הוויין

אמר ליה רבינא לרב אשי והתניא כשהוא פודן אין פודן אלא בחוץ

הא ודאי רבי אלעזר בר' שמעון היא דאי רבי הא איפסלו להו ביוצא

אמר ליה רב אחא בריה דרבא לרב אשי לימא תיהוי תיובתיה דר' יוחנן מיהא דאיתמר תודה ששחטה על שמונים חלות חזקיה אמר קדשו ארבעים מתוך שמונים ור' יוחנן אמר לא קדשו ארבעים מתוך שמונים

ולאו מי איתמר עלה אמר רבי זירא הכל מודים היכא דאמר ליקדשו ארבעים מתוך שמונים דקדשה הכא נמי דאמר ליקדשו תרתי מתוך ארבע

תני ר' חנינא טירתא קמיה דר' יוחנן שחט ארבעה כבשים על ב' חלות מושך שנים מהן וזורק דמן שלא לשמן

שאם אי אתה אומר כך הפסדת את האחרונים

אמר לו ר' יוחנן וכי אומר לו לאדם עמוד וחטא בשביל שתזכה

והתנן אברי חטאת שנתערבו באברי עולה ר' אליעזר אומר יתנו למעלה ורואה אני את בשר חטאת למעלה כאילו היא עצים וחכמים אומרים תעובר צורתן ויצאו לבית השריפה

אמאי לימא עמוד וחטא בשביל שתזכה

עמוד וחטא בחטאת בשביל שתזכה בחטאת אמרינן עמוד וחטא בחטאת בשביל שתזכה בעולה לא אמרינן

ובחדא מילתא מי אמר והא תניא כבשי עצרת ששחטן שלא לשמן או ששחטן בין לפני זמנן בין לאחר זמנן הדם יזרק והבשר יאכל

ואם היתה שבת לא יזרוק ואם זרק הורצה להקטיר אימורין לערב

ואמאי לימא עמוד חטא בשביל שתזכה

עמוד חטא בשבת כדי שתזכה בשבת אמרינן עמוד חטא בשבת כדי שתזכה בחול לא אמרינן

ובתרתי מילי לא אמר והתנן חבית של תרומה שנשברה בגת העליונה ובתחתונה חולין טמאין מודה רבי אליעזר ור' יהושע שאם יכול להציל ממנה רביעית בטהרה יציל

ואם לאו ר' אליעזר אומר

and the other [two] may be eaten after redemption. The Rabbis who recited this in the presence of R. Hisda said, This surely does not agree with Rabbi's view,1 for according to Rabbi who holds that the slaughtering hallows [the loaves], where can they be redeemed?2 If they are [all taken] outside [the Sanctuary], and redeemed there, they3 become at once invalid for having been taken out, for it is written, Before the Lord;4 and if inside,5 one is thus bringing unconsecrated food into the Sanctuary! Thereupon R. Hisda said to them, It is indeed in agreement with Rabbi's view and [the loaves] are actually redeemed inside [the Sanctuary], for they became unconsecrated of themselves.6 Rabina said to R. Ashi, But it has been taught that when they are redeemed they must be redeemed outside [the Sanctuary] only! — He replied, That [Baraitha] is clearly in agreement with the view of R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon,7 for according to Rabbi they would at once become invalid on being taken out. R. Aha the son of Raba said to R. Ashi, Shall we say that [in this Baraitha] we have a refutation of R. Johanan's view? For it was stated: If the thank-offering was slaughtered [accompanied] by eighty cakes,8 Hezekiah said, Forty out of the eighty are hallowed; but R. Johanan said, Not even forty out of the eighty are hallowed!9 — Was it not also reported thereon that R. Zera said, All agree that where [the slaughterer] declared, ‘Let forty out of the eighty be hallowed’, they are hallowed? Then here, too, we will say that he declared, ‘Let two out of the four be hallowed’. R. Hanina of Tirta10 recited before R. Johanan: If four lambs were slaughtered [on the Pentecost accompanied] by two loaves, two of the lambs should [first] be drawn to one side and their blood sprinkled under another name,11 for if you do not decide to act in this way12 you forfeit the last [pair of lambs].13 Thereupon R. Johanan said to him, Should we bid a man, ‘Arise and sin, so that you may thereby obtain a benefit’?14 Surely we have learnt:15 If the limbs of a sin-offering16 were mixed with the limbs of a burnt-offering,17 R. Eliezer says, Let them all be put above [upon the altar], for I regard the flesh of the sin-offering that is above as wood. But the Sages say, Their appearance must first be spoilt18 and they must all be taken away to the place of burning. But why?19 Should we not say, ‘Arise and sin, so that you may thereby obtain a benefit’?20 — We would say, ‘Arise and sin with the sin-offering so that you may thereby obtain some benefit in regard to the sin-offering itself’,21 but we would not say, ‘Arise and sin with the sin-offering so that you may thereby obtain a benefit in regard to the burnt-offering’. And do we say it of one subject?22 But it was taught:23 If the lambs of Pentecost were slaughtered under another name, or if they were slaughtered either before or after the proper time,24 the blood is to be sprinkled25 and the flesh may be eaten. If [the Festival] was on the Sabbath, the blood must not be sprinkled;26 if, however, is valid and may be eaten’, v. Zeb.13 a; and the second pair of lambs will Serve for the Pentecost-offering together with the two loaves. it was sprinkled, the sacrifice is acceptable, but the sacrificial portions must be burnt after dark. But why? Should we not say, ‘Arise and sin, so that you may gain an advantage’?27 — We would say, ‘Arise and sin on the Sabbath so that you may gain an advantage on the Sabbath’,28 but we would not say, ‘Arise and sin on the Sabbath so that you may gain an advantage on a weekday’. And do we not say it of two subjects?29 But we have learnt:30 If a barrel [of wine of terumah] was broken in the upper part of the winepress and in the lower part there was unclean [ordinary wine], R. Eliezer and R. Joshua agree that if a man can save a quarter [log] of it in cleanness he must save it;31 but if not, R. Eliezer says, accordingly none of the loaves have as yet been hallowed, and therefore any two may be taken for the offering and the other two redeemed like all holy things consecrated for their value only. therefore to be redeemed. The difficulty, however, is as to the place of the redemption, since the hallowed loaves are not distinguished and separated from the others. known which are the hallowed and which the redeemed loaves. sprinkling of the blood, two loaves can be selected to be hallowed for the offering, and the remaining two must be redeemed outside the Sanctuary. view. fit to be offered under their own name, and indeed were slaughtered as such, but are now rejected, they cannot be valid if offered under another name. V. supra p. 288. some other name. burnt-offering, so that the latter be rendered acceptable. name and the advantage is thereby gained that these lambs may be eaten. the Sabbath laws. sacrificial portions upon the altar after the Sabbath and then the flesh would be permitted to be eaten. lambs of Pentecost, v. supra, p. 290, n. 10. meantime the terumah wine is flowing down and mixing with the unclean non-terumah wine, thereby rendering the entire mixture absolutely unfit.