Menachot — Daf 14b

מיפגלי הכא דחשיב בהו בזביחה גופה לא כ"ש

אלא א"ר יוחנן ה"ט דרבי יוסי הכתוב עשאן גוף אחד והכתוב עשאן שני גופין גוף אחד דמעכבי אהדדי שני גופין דאמר רחמנא הא לחודה עבידא והא לחודה עבידא

ערבינהו מתערבין דהכתוב עשאן גוף אחד פלגינהו מיפלגי דהכתוב עשאן שני גופין

בעי רבי יוחנן פיגל בלחמי תודה מהו במנחת מאפה מהו תנא ליה רב תחליפא ממערבא וכן אתה אומר בלחמי תודה וכן אתה אומר במנחת מאפה

ת"ר בשעת שחיטה חישב לאכול חצי זית ובשעת זריקה חישב לאכול חצי זית פיגול מפני ששחיטה וזריקה מצטרפין

איכא דאמרי שחיטה וזריקה דתרווייהו מתירין אין קבלה והולכה לא ואיכא דאמרי הנך דמרחקן וכ"ש הני דמקרבן

איני והא תני לוי ארבע עבודות אין מצטרפות לפיגול שחיטה וזריקה קבלה והולכה אמר רבא ל"ק הא רבי הא רבנן

דתניא השוחט את הכבש לאכול חצי זית מחלה זו וכן חבירו לאכול חצי זית מחלה זו רבי אומר אומר אני שזה כשר

א"ל אביי אימר דשמעת ליה לרבי חצי מתיר וחצי אכילה כולו מתיר וחצי אכילה מי שמעת ליה

א"ל רבא בר רב חנן לאביי ואי אית ליה לרבי כולו מתיר וחצי אכילה לגזור חצי מתיר וחצי אכילה אטו כולו מתיר וחצי אכילה דהא רבי יוסי גזר ורבנן גזרי

ר' יוסי גזר דתנן להקטיר לבונתה למחר רבי יוסי אומר פסול ואין בו כרת וחכ"א פיגול וחייבין עליה כרת

ורבנן נמי גזרי דתנן פיגל בקומץ ולא בלבונה בלבונה ולא בקומץ ר"מ אומר פיגול וחייבין עליו כרת וחכ"א אין בו כרת עד שיפגל בכל המתיר

א"ל הכי השתא בשלמא התם גזר רבי יוסי קומץ דלבונה אטו קומץ דמנחה

רבנן גזרי קומץ אטו קומץ דמנחת חוטא ולבונה אטו לבונה הבאה בבזיכין

כבשים נמי כבש אטו כבש חבירו

בזך אטו בזך חבירו

אלא הכא מי איכא חצי מתיר וחצי אכילה בעלמא דליקום וליגזר

הכי נמי מסתברא דטעמא דרבנן מש"ה הוא דקתני סיפא מודים חכמים לר"מ במנחת חוטא ומנחת קנאות שאם פיגל בקומץ שפיגול וחייבין עליה כרת שהקומץ הוא המתיר

הא למה לי למיתנא כלל פשיטא מי איכא מתיר אחרינא אלא לאו הא קמ"ל דטעמא דקומץ משום דאיכא קומץ דמנחת חוטא דדמי ליה:

מתני׳ נטמאת אחת מן החלות או אחד מן הסדרים רבי יהודה אומר שניהם יצאו לבית השריפה שאין קרבן ציבור חלוק וחכמים אומרים הטמא בטומאתו והטהור יאכל:

גמ׳ א"ר אלעזר מחלוקת לפני זריקה אבל לאחר זריקה דברי הכל הטמא בטומאתו והטהור יאכל

ולפני זריקה במאי פליגי אמר רב פפא בציץ מרצה על אכילות קא מיפלגי

It nevertheless becomes piggul how much more so in this case where he actually expressed an intention with regard to the [flesh of the] offering! — Rather said R. Johanan, This is the reason for R. Jose's opinion:1 Scripture regards [the two loaves] as one body and Scripture also regards them as two bodies. As one body-since one cannot be offered without the other; and as two bodies-since the Divine Law ordains that each [loaf] shall be prepared separately. Therefore if they were reckoned as one,2 they are thereby united, since Scripture regards them as one body; if they were separated,3 they remain thus separated, since Scripture regards them also as two bodies. R. Johanan raised the following questions: What is the position if one expressed an intention which makes piggul in respect of the loaves of the thank-offering?4 or in respect of the baked meal-offering?5 — Thereupon R. Tahlifa the Palestinian recited to him the following teaching: You must say the same6 of the loaves of the Thank-offering, and you must say the same of the baked meal-offering. Our Rabbis taught: If during the slaughtering he intended to eat a half-olive's bulk [of the flesh after its prescribed time], and during the sprinkling [of the blood] he also intended to eat a half-olive's bulk [after its prescribed time], the offering is piggul, for the slaughtering and the sprinkling can be reckoned together as one.7 Some explained that this applied only to the slaughtering and the sprinkling since they are both mattirin,8 but not to the receiving and the bringing nigh; whilst others explained that this applied even to these services which are not consecutive,9 and all the more to those services which are consecutive. 10 This surely cannot be, for Levi has taught: The four services, viz., slaughtering, receiving, bringing nigh, and sprinkling cannot be reckoned together so as to render piggul! — Raba answered, There is no contradiction: the one11 represents the view of Rabbi, the other the view of the Rabbis. For it was taught: If he slaughtered the lamb intending to eat a half-olive's bulk of the one loaf [on the morrow], and likewise [he slaughtered] the other lamb intending to eat a half-olive's bulk of the other loaf [on the morrow], Rabbi says, I maintain that this offering is valid. Said Abaye to him, perhaps Rabbi held that view only in the case of a [wrongful intention expressed during] half the mattir12 in respect of half [the minimum quantity for] eating,13 but he might not uphold that view in the case of [a wrongful intention expressed during] the whole mattir in respect of half [the minimum quantity for] eating?14 Raba son of R. Hanan then said to Abaye, But if [as you say,] Rabbi holds that in the case of [a wrongful intention expressed during] the whole mattir in respect of half [the minimum quantity for] eating, [the offering is piggul], then he should declare the offering piggul even in the case of [a wrongful intention expressed during] half the mattir in respect of half [the minimum quantity for] eating, as a precautionary measure against the case of [a wrongful intention expressed during] the whole mattir in respect of half [the minimum quantity for] eating; for R. Jose adopts such a precautionary measure, and the Rabbis also adopt such a precautionary measure. ‘R. Jose adopts such a precautionary measure’, as we have learnt: [If he intended] to burn the frankincense thereof on the morrow, R. Jose says, it is invalid,15 but the penalty of kareth is not incurred on account thereof; but the Rabbis say, it is piggul and the penalty of kareth is incurred on account thereof. ‘And the Rabbis also adopt such a precautionary measure’, as we have learnt: If he expressed an intention which makes piggul during the [burning of the] handful and not during the [burning of the] frankincense, or during the [burning of the] frankincense and not during the [burning of the] handful, R. Meir says, It is piggul and the penalty of kareth is incurred; but the Rabbis say, The penalty of kareth is not incurred unless the intention which makes piggul was expressed during the service of the whole of the mattir.16 — He replied, There is no comparison between the cases. I grant you that there R. Jose declares invalid the case [where the wrongful intention was in respect] of the handful of frankincense as a precautionary measure against the case [where the wrongful intention was in respect] of the handful of the meal-offering;17 and also that the Rabbis declare invalid the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the burning] of the handful as a precautionary measure against the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the burning] of the handful of the sinner's meal-offering;18 and that they declare invalid the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the burning] of the frankincense as a precautionary measure against the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the burning] of the frankincense of the dishes.18 And in the case of the lambs too,19 they declare invalid the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the slaughtering] of one lamb as a precautionary measure against the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the slaughtering] of the other lamb too;19 and they declare invalid the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the burning] of one dish of frankincense as a precautionary measure against the case [where the wrongful intention was expressed during the burning] of the other dish too.20 In our case, however, is there ever a case of [a wrongful intention expressed during the service of] half a mattir in respect of half [the minimum quantity for] eating [that renders piggul], so that we should take here precautionary measures?21 Indeed it stands to reason that this22 is the explanation of the view of the Rabbis, for in the next clause [of that Mishnah]19 it states: The Rabbis, however, agree with R. Meir that if it was a sinner's meal-offering or a meal-offering of jealousy, and he expressed an intention which makes piggul during the burning of the handful, the offering is piggul and the penalty of kareth is incurred on account thereof, since the handful [alone] is the [entire] mattir. Now why was it necessary for this [last expression] to be stated? It is quite obvious, for is there then [in these cases] any other mattir? We must therefore say that it teaches us this: namely, the reason [why the Rabbis declare the offering invalid in the case where a wrongful intention was expressed during the burning] of the handful [of the ‘ordinary meal-offering] is that there is the handful of the sinner's meal-offering which is similar to it [and which is a real case of piggul]. MISHNAH. IF ONE OF THE [TWO] LOAVES23 OR ONE OF THE [TWO] ROWS [OF THE SHEWBREAD] BECAME UNCLEAN, R. JUDAH SAYS, BOTH MUST BE TAKEN OUT TO THE PLACE OF BURNING, FOR THE OFFERING OF THE CONGREGATION MAY NOT BE DIVIDED.24 BUT THE SAGES SAY, THE UNCLEAN [IS TREATED] AS UNCLEAN, BUT THE CLEAN MAY BE EATEN. GEMARA. R. Eleazar said, They differ only [in the case where one loaf became unclean] before the sprinkling of the blood,25 but [where it became unclean] after the sprinkling, all agree that the unclean one is treated as unclean and the clean one may be eaten. And [in the case where one became unclean] before the sprinkling, on what principle do they differ? — R. Papa said, They differ as to whether the [High Priest's] plate renders [the offering] acceptable [where] the eatable portions [had become unclean].26 [ the other; nevertheless the case of the two loaves dealt with by R. Jose in our Mishnah is a special one, as R. Johanan proceeds to show. reckoned the two loaves as one ‘body’ or entity, and therefore both are piggul, as stated in the Baraitha quoted supra p. 83 by R. Nahman. stated in the Mishnah. different kinds prescribed, v. Lev. VII, 12, 13. Now if during one of the services in connection with the animal-offering a wrongful intention was expressed with regard to the eating of the cakes of one kind, the question is: would R. Jose in this case also differ with the Rabbis and maintain that the other kinds of cakes are in no wise affected, or would he agree with them, seeing that all the kinds are rendered permissible by the offering of one sacrifice? according to R. Simeon it may consist of five cakes and five wafers; v. infra 63a. The question arises here according to R. Simeon's view: If a wrongful intention was expressed in respect of the cakes only or in respect of the wafers only, would R. Jose agree with the Rabbis that the other kind is also affected, seeing that only one handful was taken from this meal-offering on behalf of both kinds, or not? permissible for sprinkling, and the sprinkling renders the flesh permissible to be eaten. services are reckoned together as one, how much more can those services which are consecutive be reckoned together! the two lambs which renders the two loaves permissible to be eaten. ordinary offering (which is a whole mattir, v. supra n. 2) in respect of a half-olive's bulk of the flesh, and a similar intention was expressed during the sprinkling of the blood (which is also a whole mattir, ibid.), these intentions would be reckoned together to make the offering piggul. precautionary measure, since this case is similar to a real case of piggul, namely, where the intention was to burn the handful of the meal-offering on the morrow. handful of the meal-offering alone constitutes the whole mattir (as in the case of the sinner's meal-offering), or where the burning of the frankincense alone constitutes the whole mattir (as in the case of the frankincense of the Shewbread); v. infra 16a. case of absolute piggul which is similar to it. eaten. the sprinkling of the blood in an animal-offering. sacrifice became unclean the offering was nevertheless acceptable, and the sprinkling of the blood was deemed to he a valid sprinkling. The Rabbis and R. Judah differ as to what portions of the sacrifice are comprehended within the propitiating effect of the plate, whether it includes even those portions usually eaten by the priests (Heb. ,ukhft), or only those portions offered upon the altar (Heb. ihkug), as the blood and the fat, and the frankincense.