Chagigah — Daf 11b

לבתו מאנוסתו דלא כתיבא

דאמר רבא אמר לי ר' יצחק בר אבדימי אתיא הנה הנה

אתיא זימה זימה:

הן הן גופי תורה: הני אין הנך לא אלא אימא הן והן גופי תורה:

הדרן עלך הכל חייבין:

מתני׳ אין דורשין בעריות בשלשה ולא במעשה בראשית בשנים ולא במרכבה ביחיד אלא אם כן היה חכם ומבין מדעתו

כל המסתכל בארבעה דברים ראוי לו כאילו לא בא לעולם מה למעלה מה למטה מה לפנים ומה לאחור וכל שלא חס על כבוד קונו ראוי לו שלא בא לעולם:

גמ׳ אמרת ברישא ולא במרכבה ביחיד והדר אמרת אלא אם כן היה חכם ומבין מדעתו

הכי קאמר אין דורשין בעריות לשלשה ולא במעשה בראשית לשנים ולא במרכבה ליחיד אלא אם כן היה חכם ומבין מדעתו:

אין דורשין בעריות בשלשה: מ"ט אילימא משום דכתיב (ויקרא יח, ו) איש איש אל כל שאר בשרו איש איש תרי שאר בשרו חד ואמר רחמנא לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה

אלא מעתה דכתיב (ויקרא כד, טו) איש איש כי יקלל אלהיו (ויקרא כ, ט) איש איש אשר יתן מזרעו למולך הכי נמי

אלא הנהו מיבעי ליה לרבות את הנכרים שמוזהרין על ברכת השם ועל ע"ז כישראל

האי נמי מיבעי ליה לרבות את הנכרים שמוזהרין על העריות כישראל

אלא מדכתיב (ויקרא יח, ל) ושמרתם את משמרתי ושמרתם תרי משמרתי חד ואמר רחמנא לבלתי עשות מחקות התועבות

אלא מעתה דכתיב (שמות לא, יד) ושמרתם את השבת (שמות יב, יז) ושמרתם את המצות (במדבר יח, ה) ושמרתם את משמרת הקדש הכי נמי

אלא אמר רב אשי מאי אין דורשין בעריות בשלשה אין דורשין בסתרי עריות (בשלשה)

מ"ט סברא הוא בי תרי כי יתבי קמי רבייהו חד שקיל וטרי בהדי רביה ואידך מצלי אודניה לגמרא תלתא חד שקיל וטרי בהדי רביה והנך תרי שקלו וטרו בהדי הדדי ולא ידעי מאי קאמר רבייהו ואתו למישרי איסורא בעריות

אי הכי כל התורה נמי

עריות שאני דאמר מר גזל ועריות נפשו מחמדתן ומתאוה להם

אי הכי גזל נמי עריות בין בפניו בין שלא בפניו נפיש יצריה גזל בפניו נפיש יצריה שלא בפניו לא נפיש יצריה:

ולא במעשה בראשית בשנים: מנא הני מילי דתנו רבנן (דברים ד, לב) כי שאל נא לימים ראשונים יחיד שואל ואין שנים שואלין

יכול ישאל אדם קודם שנברא העולם ת"ל (דברים ד, לב) למן היום אשר ברא אלהים אדם על הארץ

יכול לא ישאל אדם מששת ימי בראשית ת"ל לימים ראשונים אשר היו לפניך

יכול ישאל אדם מה למעלה ומה למטה מה לפנים ומה לאחור ת"ל (דברים ד, לב) ולמקצה השמים ועד קצה השמים מלמקצה השמים ועד קצה השמים אתה שואל ואין אתה שואל מה למעלה מה למטה מה לפנים מה לאחור

— This refers only to his daughter by a woman whom he had forced; this case is not written [in Scripture]. For Raba said: R. Isaac b. Abdimi told me, It is to be deduced by analogy from [the words] ‘they’, ‘they’,1 and from [the words] ‘lewdness’, ‘lewdness’.2 IT IS THEY THAT ARE THE ESSENTIALS OF THE TORAH, These are and those are not!3 — Say, therefore, these and those are essentials of the Torah. MISHNAH THE [SUBJECT OF] FORBIDDEN RELATIONS4 MAY NOT BE EXPOUNDED IN THE PRESENCE OF THREE,5 NOR THE WORK OF CREATION6 IN THE PRESENCE OF TWO, NOR [THE WORK OF] THE CHARIOT7 IN THE PRESENCE OF ONE, UNLESS HE IS A SAGE AND UNDERSTANDS OF HIS OWN KNOWLEDGE. WHOSOEVER SPECULATES UPON FOUR THINGS, A PITY8 FOR HIM! HE IS AS THOUGH HE HAD NOT COME INTO THE WORLD, [TO WIT], WHAT IS ABOVE,9 WHAT IS BENEATH,10 WHAT BEFORE, WHAT AFTER.11 AND WHOSOEVER TAKES NO THOUGHT FOR THE HONOUR OF HIS MAKER,12 IT WERE A MERCY13 IF HE HAD NOT COME INTO THE WORLD. GEMARA. You say at first: NOR [THE WORK OF] THE CHARIOT IN THE PRESENCE OF ONE;14 and then you say: UNLESS HE IS A SAGE AND UNDERSTANDS OF HIS OWN KNOWLEDGE! — This is the meaning: the forbidden relations may not be expounded to three,15 nor the work of creation to two, nor [the work of] the chariot to one, unless he is a Sage and understands of his own knowledge.16 THE FORBIDDEN RELATIONS MAY NOT BE EXPOUNDED IN THE PRESENCE OF THREE. What is the reason? Shall one say, because it is written: Whosoever to any that is near of kin to him?17 ‘Whosoever’18 [implies] two, ‘near of kin to him’ [implies] one; and the Divine Law said: Ye shall not approach to uncover their nakedness.19 But then since it is written: Whosoever curseth his God,20 Whosoever giveth of his seed unto Molech,21 are these [passages] also [to be interpreted] thus! — These, therefore, must be required to make Gentiles subject to the prohibition concerning blasphemy22 and idolatry like the Israelites; then this [verse]23 is also required to make Gentiles subject to the prohibition concerning the forbidden relations like the Israelites!24 It must be inferred, therefore, from the verse: Therefore shall ye keep My charge.25 ‘Ye shall keep’ [implies] two,26 ‘My charge’ [implies] one; and the Divine Law said: That ye do not any of these abominable customs.27 But then since it is written: Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore,28 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread,29 And ye shall keep the charge of the holy things,30 are these [passages] also [to be interpreted] thus! — Therefore, said R. Ashi, THE FORBIDDEN RELATIONS MAY NOT BE EXPOUNDED IN THE PRESENCE OF THREE must mean: the secrets31 of the forbidden relations may not be expounded to three.32 What is the reason? It is a logical conclusion:33 when two sit before their master, one engages in discussion with his master and the other inclines his ear to the instruction; but [when there are] three, one engages in discussion with his master, and the other two engage in discussion with one another and do not know what their master is saying, and may come to permit that which is prohibited in the matter of the forbidden relations. If so, [the rule should apply to] the whole Torah also!34 The [subject of] forbidden relations is different, for the master said:35 Robbery and the forbidden relations, a man's soul covets and lusts for them. If so, [the rule should apply to] robbery also! [In the case of] the forbidden relations, whether [the opportunity] be before him or not before him, a man's inclination is strong; [in the case of] robbery, if [the opportunity] is before him, his inclination is strong, but if it is not before him, his inclination is not strong. NOR THE WORK OF CREATION IN THE PRESENCE OF TWO. Whence [do we infer] this? — For the Rabbis taught: For ask thou now of the days past;36 one may inquire,37 but two may not inquire. One might have thought that one may inquire concerning the pre-creation period, therefore Scripture teaches: Since the day that God created man upon the earth.38 One might have thought that one may [also] not inquire concerning the six days of creation,39 therefore Scripture teaches: The days past40 which were before thee.41 One might have thought one may [also] inquire concerning what is above and what is below, what before and what after, therefore the text teaches: And from one end of heaven unto the other.42 [Concerning the things that are] from one end of heaven unto the other thou mayest inquire, but thou mayest not inquire what is above, what is below, what before, what after. connection with the grand-daughter of an illegitimate wife (v. Yeb. 97a). By analogy, we infer that an illegitimate daughter is also a forbidden relation. word vnz (‘lewdness’). which implies the penalty of burning (v. ibid. XX, 14) for connection with one's legitimate daughter, applies also to connection with one's illegitimate daughter; v. Yeb., Sonc. ed., p. 4, nn. 8-12. of Creation) does not include the whole Talmudic cosmogony, only its esoteric aspects. The cosmogonic details mentioned infra in the Gemara (pp. 63f), such as the ten elements, the ten agencies etc., do not form part of the secret doctrine of Ma'aseh Bere'shith, for the Mishnah expressly forbids the teaching of the creation mysteries in public. The views recorded in the Talmud regarding the work of creation seem to belong chiefly to the realm of Aggadah. As regards their origin, they cannot with certainty be connected with the theosophic and cosmogonic doctrines of the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha, nor with Gnosticism; nor on the other hand can the mysticism of the Geonic period (e.g., as preserved in Sefer Yezirah with reference to the heavenly halls, angelology etc.) be regarded as a direct continuation of the Talmudic doctrines. were favourite themes with the mystics; for further information v. J.E. vol. III, p. 456f, s. ‘Cabala’. Jastrow, who takes hu,r to mean ‘relief, mercy, pity’, renders as in text; Rashi translates: ‘it were better for him’, taking the root meaning to be ‘mercy’; Levy translates: ‘it were more advantageous for him’; Goldschmidt and Danby: ‘it were better’. supported by the use of the terms infra (p. 62); but from the Gemara 16a and the Tosef. it is clear that the terms have also a temporal significance. i.e., what happened before Creation and what will happen hereafter (Tosaf. a.l.). although the fact that he can study without the aid of a teacher shows that he is a Sage and understands of his own knowledge. may not be explained explicitly. D.S. omits the ‘and’; cf. p. 77. (Sonc. ed. pp. 381-2 and nn. a.l.) man's daughter by a woman he violated, the mother of his father-in-law, or the mother of his mother-in-law (v. Sanh. 75a); according to Maharsha, the secrets of the reasons for the prohibitions; according to Goldschmidt, the details and subtleties of the subject. edd. Adam, which occurred at the end of the sixth day.