Bava Batra — Daf 159a

איתמר בן שמכר בנכסי אביו בחיי אביו ומת בנו מוציא מיד הלקוחות וזו היא שקשה בדיני ממונות ולימרו ליה אבוך מזבין ואת מפיק

ומאי קושיא דלמא מצי אמר מכח אבוה דאבא קאתינא תדע דכתיב (תהלים מה, יז) תחת אבותיך יהיו בניך תשיתמו לשרים בכל הארץ

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא בן בכור שמכר חלק בכורה בחיי אביו ומת בחיי אביו בנו מוציא מיד הלקוחות וזו היא שקשה בדיני ממונות אבוה מזבין איהו מפיק וכי תימא הכא נמי אמר מכח אבוה דאבא קאתינא אי מכח אבוה דאבא קא אתיא בחלק בכורה מאי עבידתיה

ומאי קושיא דלמא מצי אמר מכח אבוה דאבא קאתינא ובמקום אב קאימנא

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא היה יודע לו עדות בשטר עד שלא נעשה גזלן ונעשה גזלן הוא אינו מעיד על כתב ידו אבל אחרים מעידין השתא איהו לא מהימן אחריני מהימני וזו היא שקשה בדיני ממונות

מאי קושיא דלמא כגון שהוחזק כתב ידו בב"ד

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא היה יודע לו עדות בשטר עד שלא תפול לו בירושה הוא אינו יכול לקיים כתב ידו אבל אחרים יכולין לקיים כתב ידו ומאי קושיא דלמא הכא נמי כגון שהוחזק כתב ידו בב"ד

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא היה יודע לו בעדות עד שלא נעשה חתנו ונעשה חתנו הוא אינו מעיד על כתב ידו אבל אחרים מעידין הוא לא מהימן אחריני מהימני

וכי תימא הכא נמי כגון שהוחזק כתב ידו בב"ד והא אמר רב יוסף בר מניומי אמר רב נחמן אף על פי שלא הוחזק כתב ידו בבית דין

ומאי קושיא דלמא גזירת מלך היא דאיהו לא מהימן ואחריני מהימני ולאו משום דמשקר דאי לא תימא הכי משה ואהרן לחותנם משום דלא מהימני הוא אלא גזירת מלך הוא שלא יעידו להם ה"נ גזירת מלך הוא שלא יעיד על כתב ידו לחותנו

אלא לעולם כדאמרינן מעיקרא ודקא קשיא לך תחת אבותיך יהיו בניך ההוא בברכה כתיב

ומי מצית אמרת בברכה כתיב

it [must] have been made: [If] a son sold the estate  of his father, during the lifetime of the father,  and he died, his son  may take [it] away from the buyers;  and this it is that presents a difficulty in civil law;  for they  could say to him, 'Your father has sold and you are taking away'! What objection is this! Could he  not  reply. 'I succeed to the rights of the father of [my] father'?  You may know [that such a plea is justified] for it is written, Instead of thy fathers shall be thy sons, whom thou shalt make princes in all the land.  If, however, [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised, it may be] the following:  'A firstborn son who sold the share of [his] birthright during the lifetime of his father, and he died during the lifetime of his father, his son may take [it] away from the buyers; and this it is that presents a difficulty in civil law', [for] his father sold [it] and he takes [it] away! And if it be suggested [that] in this case  also [he might plead]. 'I come as successor to the rights  of my father's father', [it may be retorted.] 'If he comes as successor to the rights of his father's father what claim has he upon the portion of the birthright?' But what difficulty [is this]? Could he not  reply, 'I succeed to the rights of [my] father's father  but take [also] the place of [my] father'?  If, however, [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised it might be] the following.  'If a person was in a position to tender  evidence for one  [in respect of a transaction that was recorded] in a deed,  before he turned robber, and [then] he turned robber,  he is not [permitted] to attest his handwriting,  but others may attest it.'  Now, if he [himself] is not trusted  [shall] others be trusted!  This, then, [it is] which [presents] a difficulty in civil law. What difficulty [is this]? [It is] possible [that the Palestine message refers to] a case where his  handwriting was endorsed at a court of law!  If, however, [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised, it might be] the following.  'If a person was in a position to tender  evidence for one  [in respect of a transaction that was recorded] in a deed,  before it  had fallen as an inheritance to him, he is not eligible to identify his handwriting  but others may identify his handwriting.' What difficulty, however, [is this]? [Is it not] possible [that] here also [the reference is to] a case where his handwriting was endorsed at a court of law?  If, however [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised, it might be] the following.  'If a person was in a position to tender evidence for one, before he became his son-in-law and he [subsequently] became his son-inlaw, he is not [permitted] to attest his handwriting,  but others may attest it. [Now. if] he is not trusted [shall] others be trusted!  And if it be suggested [that] here also [the reference is to] a case where his handwriting was endorsed at a court of law, surely, [it may be retorted], R. Joseph b. Manyumi said in the name of R. Nahman, 'Even though his handwriting was not endorsed at a court of law'! What difficulty, however, [is this]? [It is] possible [that] it is a decree of the king  that he  shall not be trusted [as a witness] while others  shall be trusted; and [the reason is] not because he might lie!  for should not [this explanation] be accepted,  [could it be imagined that] Moses and Aaron [are not permitted to act as witnesses] for their fathers-in-law because they are untrustworthy! [The] only [possible explanation] then [is that] it is a decree of the king that they  shall not act as witnesses for them,  [so] here also [the explanation may be that] it is the decree of the king that he  shall not attest his handwriting in favour of his father-in-law. Hence [the message sent from Palestine was in fact just the one that was mentioned at first;  and as to your objection [from the verse]. Instead of thy fathers shall be thy sons,  [it may be pointed out that] this was written in [connection with] a blessing.  But can it be said [that this verse] was written [only] in [connection with] a blessing