Parallel Talmud
Bava Batra — Daf 131a
Babylonian Talmud (Gemara) · Soncino English Talmud
מגמר נמי לא תגמרו מיניה דאין לדיין אלא מה שעיניו רואות
בעי רבא בבריא היאך כי קא"ר יוחנן בן ברוקה בשכ"מ דבר אורותי הוא אבל בבריא לא או דלמא אפילו בבריא נמי
אמר ליה רב משרשיא לרבא תא שמע דאמר לו רבי נתן לרבי שניתם משנתכם כר' יוחנן בן ברוקה דתנן לא כתב לה בנין דיכרין דיהוין ליך מינאי אינון ירתון כסף כתובתיך יותר על חולקיהון דעם אחוהון חייב שתנאי ב"ד הוא
ואמר לו רבי יסבון תנן
ואמר רבי ילדות היתה בי והעזתי פני בנתן הבבלי אלא דקיימא לן בנין דכרין לא טרפא ממשעבדי אי סלקא דעתך יסבון תנן אמאי לא טרפא ממשעבדי אלא ש"מ ירתון תנן
מאן שמעת ליה דאית ליה האי סברא ר' יוחנן בן ברוקה ושמע מינה אפי' בבריא
אמר ליה רב פפא לאביי בין למאן דאמר יסבון ובין למאן דאמר ירתון הא אין אדם מקנה דבר שלא בא לעולם
ואפי' לר' מאיר דאמר אדם מקנה דבר שלא בא לעולם הני מילי לדבר שישנו בעולם אבל לדבר שאינו בעולם לא
אלא תנאי בית דין שאני הכא נמי תנאי בית דין שאני
א"ל משום דקא מפיק לה בלשון ירתון
הדר אמר אביי לאו מילתא היא דאמרי דתנן לא כתב לה בנן נוקבן דיהויין ליכי מינאי יהויין יתבן בביתי ויתזנן מנכסאי עד דתילקחן לגוברין חייב שהוא תנאי ב"ד
והוה לזה במתנה ולזה בירושה וכל לזה בירושה ולזה במתנה אפי' רבנן מודו
אמר ליה רב נחומי ואית דאמר רב חנניה בר מניומי לאביי
"nor infer [any law] from it" — because a judge must be guided only by that which his eyes see. Raba inquired: What [is the law in the case of] a person in good health? Does R. Johanan b. Beroka speak [only] of [the case of] a dying man, who has the right to appoint an heir [on the spot], but not [of] one [who is] in good health; or [does he] perhaps [speak] also even of one in good health? — R. Mesharsheya said to Raba: Come and hear: R. Nathan said to Rabbi, 'You have taught your Mishnah in accordance with [the views of] R. Johanan b. Beroka; for we learnt: [A husband who] did not give [his wife] in writing [the following statement, viz.], "The male children that will be born from our marriage shall inherit the money of thy marriage settlement in addition to their shares with their brothers", is [nevertheless] liable, because it is a condition laid down by the court'. And Rabbi replied [to him]: "We learnt: they shall take". [Later], however, Rabbi stated: "It was childishness on my part to be presumptuous in the presence of Nathan the Babylonian. The fact is that the law is well established [that] male children may not seize any sold property [of their father in payment for their mother's kethubah]". [Now], if it is assumed [that] we learnt, "they shall take", why may they not seize sold property? Consequently it must be inferred that we learnt: "they shall inherit"'. [Now], who has been heard to hold this view? [Surely] R. Johanan b. Beroka! Thus it may be inferred [that the law applies] even to [the case of] one who is in good health. R. Papa said to Abaye: Whether according to him who said, [that the reading was] 'they shall take', or according to him who said [that the reading was], 'they shall inherit', [the question may be asked], surely one [has] not [the right] to give possession of something which is not yet in existence! And even R. Meir, who maintains [that] one may give possession of that which is not yet in existence, applies this law [only to the case where the possession was given] to one who is [already] in existence, but not [to the case where possession is given] to one who does not exist. [The reason], however, [must be that] a condition [imposed] by a court is different [from an ordinary assignment], here, likewise, [it could have been explained that] a condition [imposed] by a court is different! — He replied to him: Because he [first] used the expression, 'they shall inherit'. Subsequently, Abaye said: What I said is nothing, For we learnt: [A husband who] did not give his wife in writing [the following] undertaking, viz., 'The female children that will be born from our marriage shall live in my house and be maintained out of my estate until they shall be taken [in marriage] by men, is [nevertheless] liable, because that [fatherly duty] is a condition [imposed] by the court. Consequently, this is a case of giving to one as a 'gift' and to another as an 'inheritance', and wherever [something is given] to one person as an inheritance and to another as a gift even the Rabbis agree [that the assignments are valid]. R. Nihumai (one said, it was R. Hananya b. Minyumai) asked Abaye: